Unnecessary Bluntness podcast on Canales and preseason approach

[Waldo]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

I don't know how you reach "solid".....when your 1 year as an OC featured a bottom half O sporting the worst run game in the NFL. 

It all stinks.  Always has.  Not only is Canales super green and unproven....Tepper allowed him to stretch himself thin by calling plays.   

You can basically predict this entire season before it kicks off.....much like you could do the last 2.  The last 2 were super predictable.   Well, Frank making that early of an exist wasn't but the overall season was. 

 

I did say Maybe next. It is the start of the season so trying to not bash him until he erans it here. Fair chances and all.

Yeah it's predictable AF sadly. There will be surprises but I'm not expecting many good ones. This crew was DOA in my eyes. They have a lot to do to change that or they will just be more names in the growing list of massive failures.

[bandu]

7 hours ago, Icege said:

 

Looking at the draft results should make you feel a little better. Half of those guys went earlier than you drafted them and the other half went later. Speaking specifically to the center position, Bortolini went #117. The centers available at #166 were Dylan McMahon (#190), Beaux Limmer (#217), Nick Samac (#228), Michael Jurgens (#230), Matt Lee (#237), and Nick Gargiulo (#256).

The team ended up bringing in Andrew Raym as an undrafted free agent.

Brugler's center rankings:

• 1. Graham Barton
• 2. JPJ
• 3. Zach Frazier
• 4. Tanor Bortolini
• 5. Sedrick Van Pran-Granger
• 6. Beaux Limmer
• 7. Hunter Nourzad
• 8. Kingsley Eguakun
• 9. Matt Lee
• 10. Jacob Monk
• 11. Dylan McMahon
• 12. Andrew Raym
• 13. Charles Turner III
• 14. Nick Samac
• 15. Drake Nugent
• 16. Jalen Sundell

 

Tanor Bortoloni is who I was hoping Dan Morgan would have picked in the 4th round ....just saying 

Edited August 12, 2024 by bandu

[SmokinwithWilly]

20 hours ago, strato said:

Better sense to use the Lewis money and put it into C and another G maybe? who was out there? 

We know the (IMO erroneous) Brees analogy that people make with Young. We know what they did to help Brees, and we know that that was the idea here. They copied that idea. So, that’s a choice they had to make. We didn’t see probably the second guard coming until it was happening, I don’t remember much debating of it until after. Might be wrong on that.

I remember realizing we really needed a C and then came to think they were not going to draft one high.

There were priorities because you can’t upgrade everything at once, this is what they tried. Doesn’t look good, but hasn’t been proven to not work yet. So here we are.

Also, 17 games where people predict us to win 4 or 5 mostly. 12 or 13 losses. If it takes two or three games (I think more) to get things maybe working a little better, we need to keep that in mind. 

 

EDIT: And when people wonder why some are irritated at Young in all of these threads, everything connects to him. There is no degree of separation, as it were. Exhibit number 1 here is the Brees treatment of the OL. What if we didn’t have to think like that when we assemble an OL? 

Also, I have said I believe a factor in the C thing was they did not want to put a rookie down there because, they don’t want to put more stuff on Bryce. That’s me spitballing though, the other is not.

We've seen over and over again rookie centers having immediate impact and being good players while we keep trotting out broken down versions of a center and constantly talk about our poor oline play. 

RB was a luxury pick. Time after time, Dallas prior and Philly now, are perfect examples of plugging any RB behind a good oline and watch them have career years.

We just spent a small fortune on a franchise QB, and when it comes time to actually get a real center to call the line and block, we did what we've watched fail over and over again. The Saints drafted McCoy. 

As far as putting too much on BY plate, Mr. Irrelevant is getting it done in SF, so the number 1 pick with the best processing brain since Peyton Manning should have no problem. 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:59 AM, Jon Snow said:

It appears Dan is counting on having a little luck to get him by with the center position this season. 

A little? He's relying on scratch off lottery tickets to pay his rent at center. LOL

[strato]

46 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

We've seen over and over again rookie centers having immediate impact and being good players while we keep trotting out broken down versions of a center and constantly talk about our poor oline play. 

RB was a luxury pick. Time after time, Dallas prior and Philly now, are perfect examples of plugging any RB behind a good oline and watch them have career years.

We just spent a small fortune on a franchise QB, and when it comes time to actually get a real center to call the line and block, we did what we've watched fail over and over again. The Saints drafted McCoy. 

As far as putting too much on BY plate, Mr. Irrelevant is getting it done in SF, so the number 1 pick with the best processing brain since Peyton Manning should have no problem. 

 

I think you are arguing something I am not. Or I attempted to say something but failed. Both probably. 

I was basically guided by the idea that our entire personnel acquisition philosophy was slanted heavily to the needs of the specific QB. Wondered if building the line in the Brees approved fashion was the option we would have chosen in a normal situation. It is all seen through a small QB filter. 

 I mean, most people rationalized that we’d benefit from the guards with whatever QB, so did I. And it should be true. Given the objections to the C plan, I was looking at what they might have done differently, or wondering if a less specialized approach (without the small QB factor) might have gotten us straight at the 3 interior OL spots. 

[PanthersGTI]

56 minutes ago, strato said:

I think you are arguing something I am not. Or I attempted to say something but failed. Both probably. 

I was basically guided by the idea that our entire personnel acquisition philosophy was slanted heavily to the needs of the specific QB. Wondered if building the line in the Brees approved fashion was the option we would have chosen in a normal situation. It is all seen through a small QB filter. 

 I mean, most people rationalized that we’d benefit from the guards with whatever QB, so did I. And it should be true. Given the objections to the C plan, I was looking at what they might have done differently, or wondering if a less specialized approach (without the small QB factor) might have gotten us straight at the 3 interior OL spots. 

I mean realistically our interior offensive line was god awful last year. Even if we had Mahomes we would have needed major upgrades at both guard positions. Pressure up the middle is a QB killer no matter who the QB is ( see Tom Brady ). Building for a quarterback is pretty much building for all QBs. Linemen and weapons. They all need them. Other then that I think you hit the nail on the head, the team is not in a quick fix mindset and priority/draft board pushed center to next year.

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 hours ago, strato said:

I think you are arguing something I am not. Or I attempted to say something but failed. Both probably. 

I was basically guided by the idea that our entire personnel acquisition philosophy was slanted heavily to the needs of the specific QB. Wondered if building the line in the Brees approved fashion was the option we would have chosen in a normal situation. It is all seen through a small QB filter. 

 I mean, most people rationalized that we’d benefit from the guards with whatever QB, so did I. And it should be true. Given the objections to the C plan, I was looking at what they might have done differently, or wondering if a less specialized approach (without the small QB factor) might have gotten us straight at the 3 interior OL spots. 

I misunderstood what you were saying. However I will say that with the urgent need to evaluate BY in a competitive setting, putting him behind a weak center is doing us a disservice. So what if we waited until next year to draft a center if BY can't be evaluated well due to constant pressure up the middle. 

Determining if BY is a franchise QB is the only thing that matters right now. He looked like a late round or UDFA last year, not a number 1 pick. A lot of that can be attributed to horrendous oline play as well as his own mistakes. But we have to know. If we end up with a top 3 pick, we have to know whether or not to move on. A shiny new RB doesn't change that. We needed a C through FA or the draft, the draft being ideal because of the quality available at the same spot. 

Not knowing if BY is a franchise level QB is a far worse finish to the season than going 0-17. 

[strato]

27 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I misunderstood what you were saying. However I will say that with the urgent need to evaluate BY in a competitive setting, putting him behind a weak center is doing us a disservice. So what if we waited until next year to draft a center if BY can't be evaluated well due to constant pressure up the middle. 

Determining if BY is a franchise QB is the only thing that matters right now. He looked like a late round or UDFA last year, not a number 1 pick. A lot of that can be attributed to horrendous oline play as well as his own mistakes. But we have to know. If we end up with a top 3 pick, we have to know whether or not to move on. A shiny new RB doesn't change that. We needed a C through FA or the draft, the draft being ideal because of the quality available at the same spot. 

Not knowing if BY is a franchise level QB is a far worse finish to the season than going 0-17. 

I think we need to see the offense. And Brooks being behind schedule sucks. But he will get on the field and we’ll see what shape it takes. 

 Every offensive move had an aspect of propping up the QB. I think.

My personal interpretation of why they wanted Brooks is basically that they want to prop Bryce up with the running game but they really wanted also, a skilled receiver at the position. That’s what I thought the urgency was re Brooks. And why they didn’t do the later RB thing. Which that’s my thing too. 

Actually most of my arguments regarding general football operations attempt to understand why,  filtered as 'what was the thinking' as opposed to what I would do. Sometimes it agrees. Some of the poo, I would definitely not do that way.