Updated 2025 draft order

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Winning habits come from putting in te work while you arent doing so well.

You learn to walk by trying and falling. You learn to succeed by trying and failing. You learn to win by trying and losing. Eventually the work pays off

People don't automatically become successful. They become successful not by succeeding, but by putting in the work and learning which then eventually leads to success when all the other things you need click into place.

All of this takes being able to put in the necessary work whether things are going well or not, developing character for the individual and culture for the organization.

It's work, ability, and attitude that helps you become succesful. You develop an attitude that tells you to work hard and keep trying while you develop the attitude and as a team you do that together while you work to get everyone on that same page. That's building a culture that will win, a winning culture.

You don't become a winning team by plugging in one player. You become a winning team by getting all the players you have on the team in the same page with the right hard working attitude while they learn to play together.

You know what you don't do? Quit. Ever.

I always assume that people who haven't had success in their life by working hard to get it are the ones pounding the table to tank. Anyone who has worked hard to achieve success in an unsuccessful situation knows how much effort it takes to get there. That's why successful people talk about those scenarios all the time. They are proud of those accomplishments. 

I get the fans perspective about draft picks, I do. We have all been there about wanting a better draft pick. But, you know, if you just have good talent evaluators, you will get good players. There has never been an NFL draft where there was only 10 great NFL players and all of them were top 10 draft picks. 

Herm Edwards(although not a successful HC) said it best....

[frankw]

I think it's important to be realistic about all this "winning for the culture" talk.

Did we change the culture in 2019 with that brief Kyle Allen win streak?

Did we change the culture in 2020 winning a few games with Bridgewater?

Did we change the culture in 2021 with that 3 game win streak with Sam Darnold?

Did we change the culture in 2022 winning meaningless games with Steve Wilks?

Last I checked even after all that our culture fully bottomed out last year and the beginning of this year.

Let's just maintain perspective that sustained winning is the only thing that is going to change this culture. One or two wins here and there against awful teams are good for a brief high but that's it. No more no less. What will truly start to change the tide is defeating really good teams. Until then. You can talk about culture all you want. We're still just spinning our wheels.

[Shotgun]

8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I always assume that people who haven't had success in their life by working hard to get it are the ones pounding the table to tank. Anyone who has worked hard to achieve success in an unsuccessful situation knows how much effort it takes to get there. That's why successful people talk about those scenarios all the time. They are proud of those accomplishments. 

I get the fans perspective about draft picks, I do. We have all been there about wanting a better draft pick. But, you know, if you just have good talent evaluators, you will get good players. There has never been an NFL draft where there was only 10 great NFL players and all of them were top 10 draft picks. 

Herm Edwards(although not a successful HC) said it best....

Yep, teams like the Steelers & Ravens rarely  pick in the top half of the draft….and they win year after year. I’ll take winning over top 10 draft picks every time. 
 

Not being the worst team in the NFL feels good for a change.

[rayzor]

I think fans that are the most impatient are those who haven't been fans for long. I've been doing this thing since I was in my 20s...when we got a team.

I've been at it a long time. What have I learned? Patience.

We are starting over and rebuilding. Our culture has sucked for a long time thanks to the last couple years of Rivera, all the years of rhule( who really destroyed it all) and that clusterfug of a year last year.

This year is about getting the culture right, getting the minds right, getting the right work ethic and team developing chemistry and building bonds and learning how to fight together. And winning any game builds confidence.

For a new team (which we are due to us essentially starting over from scratch this year) there is no such thing as a meaningless win.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

I think it's important to be realistic about all this "winning for the culture" talk.

Did we change the culture in 2019 with that brief Kyle Allen win streak?

Did we change the culture in 2020 winning a few games with Bridgewater?

Did we change the culture in 2021 with that 3 game win streak with Sam Darnold?

Did we change the culture in 2022 winning meaningless games with Steve Wilks?

Last I checked even after all that our culture fully bottomed out last year and the beginning of this year.

Let's just maintain perspective that sustained winning is the only thing that is going to change this culture. One or two wins here and there against awful teams are good for a brief high but that's it. No more no less. What will truly start to change the tide is defeating really good teams. Until then. You can talk about culture all you want. We're still just spinning our wheels.

You only know if it's the spark in hindsight, never at the time.

I was at one of those Lions games in 2021, a home win over the heavily favored Cardinals to make them 2-11-1. It was in front of a maybe 40% capacity stadium and at a time the Lions were known for how completely insane their new HC sounded at his introduction press conference.

Did anyone outside that building think it was headed to where it is now? Probably not. 

Maybe the end of this season goes down as another statistical outlier in a sea of losses. But also maybe this young core believes enough and it starts the ascent back to being a competitive franchise.

Guess we will see.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, rayzor said:

I think fans that are the most impatient are those who haven't been fans for long. I've been doing this thing since I was in my 20s...when we got a team.

I've been at it a long time. What have I learned? Patience.

We are starting over and rebuilding. Our culture has sucked for a long time thanks to the last couple years of Rivera, all the years of rhule( who really destroyed it all) and that clusterfug of a year last year.

This year is about getting the culture right, getting the minds right, getting the right work ethic and team developing chemistry and building bonds and learning how to fight together. And winning any game builds confidence.

For a new team (which we are due to us essentially starting over from scratch this year) there is no such thing as a meaningless win.

Yeah, 1995 OG's have seen a lot of this before. Never as long as this has lasted but we have seen the upheavals, we have seen the one win seasons, we have seen being a national laughingstock. And we have seen Super Bowl appearances emerge from those eras, as well.

New fans, just chill. 

[rayzor]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, 1995 OG's have seen a lot of this before. Never as long as this has lasted but we have seen the upheavals, we have seen the one win seasons, we have seen being a national laughingstock. And we have seen Super Bowl appearances emerge from those eras, as well.

New fans, just chill. 

Yep. Definitely the longest drought, but we've been at the bottom before...a couple times. Our culture has sucked before, but what canales walked into was the worst I'd ever seen it. Things will get better and what I'm seeing is getting us in the right direction.

[kungfoodude]

I also want to point out that it was a good sign for the team that they moved guys like Johnson and Mingo at the deadline. Johnson is now a confirmed locker room cancer and Mingo was taking reps away from players that have started to shine.

These are all positive steps from a team culture perspective that give me some glimmer of hope about the potential for there to be a future of some sort here.

[frankw]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

You only know if it's the spark in hindsight, never at the time.

I was at one of those Lions games in 2021, a home win over the heavily favored Cardinals to make them 2-11-1. It was in front of a maybe 40% capacity stadium and at a time the Lions were known for how completely insane their new HC sounded at his introduction press conference.

Did anyone outside that building think it was headed to where it is now? Probably not. 

Maybe the end of this season goes down as another statistical outlier in a sea of losses. But also maybe this young core believes enough and it starts the ascent back to being a competitive franchise.

Guess we will see.

Lions are a good example but that's more on the rare side. They could have just as easily continued on a Browns level trajectory.

It all depends on Canales. First order of business is getting these blowout losses off the menu. When those occur like the Bears and Commanders games that just resets everything as far as I'm concerned. And for anyone that doesn't believe me or thinks I'm exaggerating. Just remember we've been flailing as a franchise ever since that blowout loss to the Steelers in 2016.

For now we just need to finish the season respectable like. Offseason needs to begin with a reset in leadership. Identify the QB that is going to lead your culture and build from there. No we are not a QB away from contending for a Super Bowl or something extreme like that but you still need that player to be the spark for your team more often than not. When you look at the consistent contenders that's what you'll always see. None of these Panthers players no matter how nice they are in public are getting warm and fuzzy over 126 yards passing. This league is about production.

[CRA]

20 hours ago, rayzor said:

You are building a culture one way or the other.

If you keep fighting regardless of anything, you build a tough team that won't quit.

If you start trying to talk, you create a culture that quits

Sorry. Try to defend it all you want, but what you are holding on to is the absolute worst kind of culture for any team.

And the whole concept is just stupid. Sorry. Only the worst of team cultures quit and call it strategy.

Tepper already attempted a legit in season tank.  But Tepper can't do anything right.   So it didn't work. 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Lions are a good example but that's more on the rare side. They could have just as easily continued on a Browns level trajectory.

It all depends on Canales. First order of business is getting these blowout losses off the menu. When those occur like the Bears and Commanders games that just resets everything as far as I'm concerned. And for anyone that doesn't believe me or thinks I'm exaggerating. Just remember we've been flailing as a franchise ever since that blowout loss to the Steelers in 2016.

For now we just need to finish the season respectable like. Offseason needs to begin with a reset in leadership. Identify the QB that is going to lead your culture and build from there. No we are not a QB away from contending for a Super Bowl or something extreme like that but you still need that player to be the spark for your team more often than not. When you look at the consistent contenders that's what you'll always see. None of these Panthers players no matter how nice they are in public are getting warm and fuzzy over 126 yards passing. This league is about production.

Well the Bengals turned around years of being laughingstock with Marvin Lewis. They are attempting to do so again after some disappointing results in the Super Bowl loss aftermath. Even the Browns have really turned things around from 2017 and onward. TBH, they aren't many pieces from being a legit contending team. This is assuming they don't fall apart again with the burden of the Watson mistake.

Becoming consistently competitive is important, I 100% agree. Doesn't mean winning but being competitive. That 2021 Lions team got blown out several times but they also were competitive in the majority of those games. To date we stand at 5 blow out losses, 2 wins and 3 competitve games. That's not great and it's not nothing either.

If we can limit the stompings in the last 7 games, win a couple and be competitive more often than we aren't....maybe that is the 2021 Lions. Maybe we are on the path for once.

It still takes a LOT of building every offseason to get there. That is gonna be where we have to stay on target.

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

Tepper already attempted a legit in season tank.  But Tepper can't do anything right.   So it didn't work. 

When? Wilks?

[ClawOn]

20 hours ago, Killah_Ray said:

For people acting like winning meaningless games aren’t a big deal, remember it was winning meaningless games that set us up to trade everything to move up to get Bryce…

That's the problem. The plan should have been trading everything to get Stroud. It doesn't matter where you draft if your targets are the wrong guys.  

[Davidson Deac II]

5 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Remember Tank for Bryce?  That was going on for almost 2 years.  How did that work out for us. 

Fight to win games and improve the culture.  

If we were to win games going down the stretch, it would give us fans some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

And tank for Tua, tank for Trevor. And so on and so forth. Fwiw, I don't remember a single tank for Mahomes comment.