John Fox

[Big Ed]

And I still say it's a cop out.... Look at your example.... Since Marty Schottenheimer has left it's been.... well more of the same!!!!

The point is San Diego plays in a conference with two Hall of Fame QB's with good people around them. The Chargers losing was not Marty's fault... and the past few years prove it. Once you get to the playoffs it's usually good teams playing other good teams.... doesn't mean the one who lose on that sunday lost because of Coaching!

People blame coaching because it is the easiest thing to do!!! Someone always has to take blame, when sometimes you just look to a good team. Everyone wants the chin.... well look how many AFC championship games he lost before he got his ring... and the down seasons he had!

John Fox is a good coach... when he has a good team they perform well, It could be argued that John fox teams has overachieved if you want to compare talent to those of elite teams. People talk about Jake not being an elite NFL QB.... well with john fox he went to a superbowl, and multiple NFC Championship games!!

But we have a few seasons of 7-9, now John fox is a horrible coach, and need to be fired.... GTFO

Never said Marty was not a good coach

Never said Fox was not a good coach

I'm saying that's the way the owners with all their millions think.

They have millions B /C they get the results THEY want , or they make changes to get the results .

I often wondered why anyone would fire Marty

The man could get you in the playoffs!!

Owner wanted more.

Maybe J R 's heart has him thinking it's time to speed things up if he wants to win a Super Bowl in his lifetime .

may take 2-3 years ,but with a heart problem.

[theyhateme45]

And I still say it's a cop out.... Look at your example.... Since Marty Schottenheimer has left it's been.... well more of the same!!!!

The point is San Diego plays in a conference with two Hall of Fame QB's with good people around them. The Chargers losing was not Marty's fault... and the past few years prove it. Once you get to the playoffs it's usually good teams playing other good teams.... doesn't mean the one who lose on that sunday lost because of Coaching!

People blame coaching because it is the easiest thing to do!!! Someone always has to take blame, when sometimes you just look to a good team. Everyone wants the chin.... well look how many AFC championship games he lost before he got his ring... and the down seasons he had!

John Fox is a good coach... when he has a good team they perform well, It could be argued that John fox teams has overachieved if you want to compare talent to those of elite teams. People talk about Jake not being an elite NFL QB.... well with john fox he went to a superbowl, and multiple NFC Championship games!!

But we have a few seasons of 7-9, now John fox is a horrible coach, and need to be fired.... GTFO

It's not Jake's fault he was still the starter way past his expiration date.

Hindsight is always 20/20.... it becomes a problem when these decisions are constantly made and constantly set the team back...

Looking back, yes Fox held on to Jake as the starter a little too long... and he has acknowledged this in various interviews (To an extent). But that is one mistake... Coaches are going to make some when your decisions are based on how players are going to perform.

My point is overall Fox has been a good consistent coach.... They are hard to come by and there is no reason to get rid of him IMO. I know if Fox has the talent, and the players execute... we will win!!! There has been nothing to show me otherwise during his coaching career.

[theyhateme45]

Never said Marty was not a good coach

Never said Fox was not a good coach

I'm saying that's the way the owners with all their millions think.

They have millions B /C they get the results THEY want , or they make changes to get the results .

I often wondered why anyone would fire Marty

The man could get you in the playoffs!!

Owner wanted more.

Maybe J R 's heart has him thinking it's time to speed things up if he wants to win a Super Bowl in his lifetime .

may take 2-3 years ,but with a heart problem.

And thats my point.... Sometimes they make coaching changes and it does not get them any further!!! They want more, but the answer is not firing the coach... sometimes they just need patience. A season when things line up a falls their way.

Cowboys, Chargers, Redskins, Raiders, Buccaneers, Browns change coaches... same results.

My point is if He wants to win.... getting rid of a proven winner like Fox is a mistake IMO.

[pantherclaw]

Ahhh, another senseless thread whining about letting a favorite player go.

CRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYY ME A RIVER!!!!!!

WAAAAA

and wa some more. Please, keep it up, cause none of us are tired of it yet.

[NanceUSMC]

Didn't the Panthers raise ticket prices for next year?

Thinkin' the Rams did too, yes?

[Saint J]

For a opposing team's perspective...

I've always thought of Harris as an average SS but the Panthers' secondary has generally been ''different'' with him in there. Sort of like our secondary was with Sharper. I remember your secondary seeming a lot tougher once he returned from injury last year and he's played us well since 2007 or so when he came over. Guys that like that are leaders and their value can't really be pointed out fully in stats. With him gone your top players in the secondary include a half retarded corner back and a guy sort of in limbo with Marshall. yikes...

[Mr. Scot]

He inherited a 1-15 team, and it appears he is intent on leaving one for the next guy.

Delhomme, Peppers, Harris, Hoover, Diggs, Kemo, Lewis....this is what Seifert did before 2001, saying the Panthers were doomed to 7-9 seasons unless they went with a youth movement. He ditched Beuerlein and other vets, and when things went South, he had no one in his locker room to turn to.

Trading Harris makes NO sense.

You and I generally agree. Can't go with you on this one, though.

May or may not agree with the reasons, but I think there are reasons.

[panthers55]

For a opposing team's perspective...

I've always thought of Harris as an average SS but the Panthers' secondary has generally been ''different'' with him in there. Sort of like our secondary was with Sharper. I remember your secondary seeming a lot tougher once he returned from injury last year and he's played us well since 2007 or so when he came over. Guys that like that are leaders and their value can't really be pointed out fully in stats. With him gone your top players in the secondary include a half retarded corner back and a guy sort of in limbo with Marshall. yikes...

My point exactly in another thread. It sometimes takes someone from outside the team to see things clearly. Harris is alot like Sharper is for the Saints. He isn't the most gifted guy but is always around the ball and elevates the guys around him.

I wish people here could see that leadership and intangibles are as valuable or more than 40 times and cover speed alone.

[rico6]

For a opposing team's perspective...

I've always thought of Harris as an average SS but the Panthers' secondary has generally been ''different'' with him in there. Sort of like our secondary was with Sharper. I remember your secondary seeming a lot tougher once he returned from injury last year and he's played us well since 2007 or so when he came over. Guys that like that are leaders and their value can't really be pointed out fully in stats. With him gone your top players in the secondary include a half retarded corner back and a guy sort of in limbo with Marshall. yikes...

A Saints-fuging-Fan Get's It.

[top dawg]

He inherited a 1-15 team, and it appears he is intent on leaving one for the next guy.

Delhomme, Peppers, Harris, Hoover, Diggs, Kemo, Lewis....this is what Seifert did before 2001, saying the Panthers were doomed to 7-9 seasons unless they went with a youth movement. He ditched Beuerlein and other vets, and when things went South, he had no one in his locker room to turn to.

Trading Harris makes NO sense.

Delhomme..???....LOL LOL LOL. Man, it was time for hime to go. What didn't make sense was the contract extension. This was the dumbest move in franchise history as far as I'm concerned. I didn't particularly like them just letting Pep go, either, but I know why they did it, and I'm good with it. Pep was costing us too much for what he was producing (or not), and it seems like he wanted to leave anyway (otherwise he would have signed when they gave him a chance). Hoover is debatable, but (like it or not) he was getting old and the FO deemed him expendable. I know he was a fan favorite, but the FO is probably right. With Fiametta (and Sutton filling in in a jam), we probably can get by without Hoover. You knew it had to be coming with the drafting of Fiametta. Diggs, Kemo and Lewis, like it or not, truly were expendable. Not one is really exceptional. They are average to good, so it's not like their productivity can't be asily matched or exceeded.

In general, this Panthers team has so much more talent (and young talent) than Siefert's hack job, that I just can't get with your comparison. This is comparing apples to oranges (and possibly "golden" apples at that). We still have enough young, veteran leadership that I don't see leadership as an issue.

I will admit that I was surprised as you that they traded Harris. I would have felt more comfortable with him on the field, but it's not like the end of the world.

Although Fox has had tough going two out of the last three years, there is no way I think that his is tanking the team. In fact, I believe that the moves he has made this offseason have made a whole helluva lot of sense, if not for the short run, but definitely the long run. Just like Fox, the Panthers will not be also-rans come the next few seasons (even this one).

[Matt Foley]

Thinkin' the Rams did too, yes?

Rams drafted Sam Bradford, signed an Eagles QB who played well under their OC, about to sign Westbrook, too....they aren't slashing payroll AND raising ticket prices. That's gashing your fans.

[Matt Foley]

Meat is correct here, Brad Hoover was a shining example of how to run straight ahead into a 350 pound nose tackle for half of a yard.

Brad Hoover played hurt 90 percent of the time. And yet he was still a top-five fullback almost every year. The Hoover and Harris moves don't make sense because they weren't necessary, talent-wise, and they were unexplainable, leadership-wise. Delhomme? Yes. Although like I've said pumping up Moore for four months only to cut him off at the knees on draft day also makes no sense.

Face it, the entire organization has been operating as if it was rudderless for over a year now. The sons getting fired. The Delhomme saga. The Peppers fiasco. Talented stars wanting out. Loyal stars getting cut. None of it looks like a team that can compete with the Super Bowl champions. In fact, in this hypercompetitive league, it's looking more like a team that's ready to hit rock bottom and build up again. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Guest silver82blade]

you're wrong. we have a lot of strong pieces to an elite team. we just need a better strong safety, some run stuffers on the d-line, and maybe a pash rusher at de. i'd hardly consider that rock bottom. for all the complaining about a few boneheaded moves, we are way better off than some teams. in fact, we have a better team than most teams. maybe just not playoff calibre.

[CatMan72]

For a opposing team's perspective...

I've always thought of Harris as an average SS but the Panthers' secondary has generally been ''different'' with him in there. Sort of like our secondary was with Sharper. I remember your secondary seeming a lot tougher once he returned from injury last year and he's played us well since 2007 or so when he came over. Guys that like that are leaders and their value can't really be pointed out fully in stats. With him gone your top players in the secondary include a half retarded corner back and a guy sort of in limbo with Marshall. yikes...

Thanks troll.