Cam Newton wants to be Big Ben

[blackcatgrowl]

You're really not getting how it works in real world football.

But since you brought up Brady, let's work from that example.

Brady was drafted at a time when the Pats had an established starter in Drew Bledsoe. That's the time when a team can afford to take a chance on a project.

When you need a guy now, you don't take a project, especially not at number one overall.

If we had a guy already in place, using a second rounder ona guy like Newton - or even Mallett or Locker - would be fine with me. A fourth on a guy like Tyrod Taylor would be good too.

That's not where we are, though. Far from it :nonod:

My point was that scouts are not an infallible source of talent evaluation.

And since you want to talk about "REAL" football world, lets go with that example? Like, how about the fact that Scouts often go with establishment mentalities that pick talent based on "the good-ole-boy" system, with no regard to actual skill?

Or the fact that the Draft at ANY position, be it #1 overall or Mr. Irrelevant, is a roll of the dice.

An interesting study shows that high draft picks does not equate success:

http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/3/24/1386838/the-nfl-draft-a-little-less

In fact, the team that won the most games during this 5-year period, the New England Patriots, actually had the lowest percentage of their draft picks on their roster and were well below the league average with respect to draft picks who became starters.

But ya, just keep telling yourself that the holy-#1-overall isn't worth drafting a BCS Championship QB who has a dazzling array of natural talent and on-field abilities, in the light of our league worst play at that position. Just keep saying it over and over, and it will become the truth.

[CLTPanther]

Hide your daughters over 14

[TheRealDeal]

But ya, just keep telling yourself that the holy-#1-overall isn't worth drafting a BCS Championship QB who has a dazzling array of natural talent and on-field abilities, in the light of our league worst play at that position. Just keep saying it over and over, and it will become the truth.

Look. You're trying really hard to defend him but when you say things like the bolded, it ruins your argument and it makes it seem like there is a second agenda rather than just getting the best player for the team.

There have been plenty of BCS champions. There have been plenty of guys who have a "dazzling array of natural talent and on-field abilities" but when it comes to the NFL it doesn't matter. He's a good QB in a college system against college opponents. You have to be able to project those "skills" into the NFL and the fact is they don't project well right now.

If you just admitted he has a really long, steep hill to climb instead of trying to defend him at every juncture, you would gain some credibility.

[King Taharqa]

funny, he can harass the forum for years, but when people start clowning KT, the tables are turned..

funny how people can attack me and call me a racist just for having standards and accountability at the QB position, but get mad when people call them that for spewing their ignorance and garbage. I made no mention of Hatter in this thread, until he appeared with his bigoted agenda. Hatter offered nothing of substance about Cam. Just another personal attack at me. Nothing more. Just because Hatter as a fan has accepted failure at the QB position doesnt mean other Panther fans like myself should accept failure as well. I want us to be better than the 31st QB core in the NFL. Hate me for wanting that. As a leader, I can accept that on this board.

[Mr. Scot]

My point was that scouts are not an infallible source of talent evaluation.

And since you want to talk about "REAL" football world, lets go with that example? Like, how about the fact that Scouts often go with establishment mentalities that pick talent based on "the good-ole-boy" system, with no regard to actual skill?

Or the fact that the Draft at ANY position, be it #1 overall or Mr. Irrelevant, is a roll of the dice.

An interesting study shows that high draft picks does not equate success:

http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/3/24/1386838/the-nfl-draft-a-little-less

But ya, just keep telling yourself that the holy-#1-overall isn't worth drafting a BCS Championship QB who has a dazzling array of natural talent and on-field abilities, in the light of our league worst play at that position. Just keep saying it over and over, and it will become the truth.

If you think the Heisman Trophy and^or quarterbacking a National Championship team equates to guaranteed success in the NFL, you might wanna take a look back over the past several years and check out the names of guys who did those things (and where they are now).

Any GM who takes a guy #1 and justifies it with "hey, the scouts might be wrong" best be ready to get laughed out of the league.

[TheRealDeal]

If you think the Heisman Trophy and^or quarterbacking a National Championship team equates to guaranteed success in the NFL, you might wanna take a look back over the past several years and check out the names of guys who did those things (and where they are now).

Any GM who takes a guy #1 and justifies it with "hey, the scouts might be wrong" best be ready to get laughed out of the league.

I made a whole picture thread about it last time. It was actually fun.

[rayzor]

Find me an NFL scout that thinks Newton is ready to step in from day one.

We're not getting a franchise guy this year, not from the draft or free agency.

This year's best hope is a stopgap, then try to get a franchise QB next season.

who is saying that he needs to start from day 1 and since when have you been in favor of QBs starting from then instead of waiting a couple years?

for the longest time you have been arguing that a QB needs to sit and wait a couple years before getting the start.

[King Taharqa]

Any GM who takes a guy #1 and justifies it with "hey, the scouts might be wrong" best be ready to get laughed out of the league.

Kinda like a GM that giftwraps a 33rd overall pick to Bill Belichick for Dameyune Craig 2.0? Or a GM that drafts a college safety in the 1st round as a "project" LBer convert that only starts 1 game his rookie season?

[Carolinator]

Cam Newton wanting to be like Big Ben is like

Me wanting to be like captain america

[jtnc]

Find me an NFL scout that thinks Newton is ready to step in from day one.

We're not getting a franchise guy this year, not from the draft or free agency.

This year's best hope is a stopgap, then try to get a franchise QB next season.

Scouts said Clausen would be able to start in the NFL. And look where it got us?

[bleys]

funny how people can attack me and call me a racist just for having standards and accountability at the QB position, but get mad when people call them that for spewing their ignorance and garbage. I made no mention of Hatter in this thread, until he appeared with his bigoted agenda. Hatter offered nothing of substance about Cam. Just another personal attack at me. Nothing more. Just because Hatter as a fan has accepted failure at the QB position doesnt mean other Panther fans like myself should accept failure as well. I want us to be better than the 31st QB core in the NFL. Hate me for wanting that. As a leader, I can accept that on this board.

there are plenty of personal attacks towards you, and I would totally understand it if it came out of no where.. you've built your reputation yourself, single handedly, and yet play victim and naive to why people are picking on poor you..

for example,

when you call people like me a racist for giving you valid reasons why I didn't want Vick to come to Carolina and "you wouldn't expect anything else from a white supremacist", do you really think over time people aren't going to call you a clown?

I am not the only person you've attacked for NO REASON simply for having a different opinion than you.

I've tried to have serious conversations with you to find out where you are coming from, but you make your attacks and then run off, totally unaccountable to your words.. You've never come at me correctly when I've asked you to do so..

you have went out on your witch hunts in the past and then act like you are just pointing out facts and can't understand where all the hate comes from.. I'm one person you've done this too, so there is one case against you.. let's not go into some naive, victim role..

now, in the last month especially, I have noticed you are a target and have been getting criticized.. but don't think for a second that it's coming out of no where.. I really wish you would just be accountable and say "yeah, I see why certain people MIGHT hold a grudge towards me"...

of course, I can only speak for myself..

[Snake]

I find it really funny how so many people dont like Newton. Maybe its a racist thing, or maybe its because people have made it a racist thing, or maybe they just dont like him, but he is showing at least he wants to work hard and be good. This is a step in the right direction for him to prove he is a top prospect and to show he is not a one hit wonder. If his combine and interviews are good he will be high on boards like him or not. Also we have taken prospects in the past and downright gambles. You dont think Delhomme was a gamble??? So are many more of our players so dont dismiss the fact that the panthers will not take him.

[blackcatgrowl]

So you think those guys dragging down the average are going to be playing in the NFL?

You think there will be 66 dlinemen drafted and playing in the NFL?

You think Cam is going to blow away the NFL running a 4.5? I get that you like the guy but there are a lot of things to suggest that he will struggle in the NFL, just be prepared.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-by-round-input:1/dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:dl

Of the 66 Defensive Linemen in the Combine, 51 were drafted. Here's their draft rank with their 40-yard dash times. CLEARLY speed is NOT a determining factor for Defensive Linemen, and it is absurd to suggest that the average DT or DE can run a 4.7.

Here's a breakdown by OVERALL DRAFT SELECTION.

(NC means they were not at the combine.

DNP means they did not do a 40-yard dash, which is significant since many of them that didn't test for the 40-yard GOT drafted)

Name - 40-yard speed - Overall Draft Number

Ndamukong Suh 4.98 2

Gerald McCoy 4.96 3

Tyson Alualu 4.87 10

Brandon Graham 4.72 13

Jason Pierre-Paul 4.64 15

Derrick Morgan 4.72 16

Dan Williams 5.17 26

Jared Odrick 4.98 28

Jerry Hughes 4.69 31

Brian Price 5.13 35

Koa Misi 4.69 40

Torell Troup 5.1 41

Sergio Kindle 4.71 43

Lamarr Houston 4.85 44

Linval Joseph 5.09 46

Jason Worilds 4.72 52

Jermaine Cunningham DNP 53

Carlos Dunlap 4.71 54

Mike Neal 4.86 56

Terrence Cody 5.64 57

Alex Carrington 4.89 72

D'Anthony Smith DNP 74

Earl Mitchell 4.7 81

Corey Peters 5.02 83

Daniel Te'o-Nesheim 4.72 86

Everson Griffen 4.66 100

Corey Wootton DNP 109

Thaddeus Gibson 4.71 116

Geno Atkins 4.75 120

Al Woods 5.12 123

E.J. Wilson DNP 127

O'Brien Schofield DNP 130

Ricky Sapp 4.7 134

Cameron Sheffield 4.9 142

Larry Hart NC 143

Cam Thomas 5.27 146

Hall Davis 4.83 149

Austen Lane 4.83 153

Art Jones DNP 157

Greg Hardy 4.87 175

Arthur Moats 4.66 178

Adrian Tracy 4.79 184

Clifton Geathers 4.96 186

Eugene Sims NC 189

Danny Batten NC 192

Chris McCoy NC 212

Willie Young 4.82 213

George Selvie 4.89 226

C.J. Wilson 4.75 230

Jammie Kirlew 4.94 232

Sean Lissemore NC 234

Dexter Davis 4.64 236

Ricardo Matthews NC 238

David Howard NC 241

Doug Worthington DNP 242

Jeff Owens 4.97 243

Brandon Deaderick DNP 247

Erik Lorig DNP 253

Kade Weston NC 317

Albert McClellan 4.7 Not Drafted

Aleric Mullins DNP Not Drafted

Antonio Coleman DNP Not Drafted

Brandon Lang 4.96 Not Drafted

Carl Ihenacho DNP Not Drafted

Charles Alexander DNP Not Drafted

Greg Middleton 4.93 Not Drafted

Jay Ross 5.11 Not Drafted

Junior Galette 4.77 Not Drafted

Kevin Basped 4.72 Not Drafted

Lindsey Witten 4.71 Not Drafted

Lorenzo Washington 5.1 Not Drafted

Malcolm Sheppard 5.09 Not Drafted

Rahim Alem 4.75 Not Drafted

Vince Oghobaase 5.43 Not Drafted

You could never be more wrong on this TRD.

[bleys]

I find it really funny how so many people dont like Newton. Maybe its a racist thing, or maybe its because people have made it a racist thing, or maybe they just dont like him, but he is showing at least he wants to work hard and be good. This is a step in the right direction for him to prove he is a top prospect and to show he is not a one hit wonder. If his combine and interviews are good he will be high on boards like him or not. Also we have taken prospects in the past and downright gambles. You dont think Delhomme was a gamble??? So are many more of our players so dont dismiss the fact that the panthers will not take him.

You all do realize there are other QBs getting good reviews who have just as much of a chance to be the 1st QB taken that are not black and people are not wanting..

Delhomme wasn't drafted #1 overall, he was an undrafted FA.. hardly a gamble, lol

if the Panthers take Newton, I will not be saying "Damn, wtf.." I will fully expect the scouting department and coaching staff did their job and feel comfortable with our decisions..

Fox had a lot of pull within the organization and did a lot of stupid poo, we are on a new path and I'm hoping Rivera (with Chud bring a SD type offense) has a bit more of a clue than Fox did.. it's hardly fair to even compare the 2..

there are solid reasons for people to be cautious in Newton, and being racist is hardly a valid point to raise against them.. it's really fuging ignorant...