Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Why Bowers could be the pick


MHS831

Recommended Posts

4-3 DEs who can rush the qb and play the run are rather rare. Some say the lack of well-rounded 4-3 DEs is the primary reason the 3-4 has evolved.

Since Julius Peppers went second overall in the 2002 draft, how many pure 4-3 DEs have been drafted in the first round?

2003: None

2004: 18. Will Smith, Saints

2005: 17. David Pollock, Bengals

2006: 1. Mario Williams, Texans; 32. Mathias Kiwamuka, Giants

2007: 4. Gaines Adams, Bucs; 8. Jamaal Anderson, Falcons

2008: None

2009: None

2010: None

*DEs were drafted eery year, but they either busted very quickly or they went to 3-4 teams as OLBs or 3-4 DEs--One became a 4-3 DT (Williams-Minnesota) This refers to 4-3 DEs.

Sure, DEs came from other rounds, but it is rare to find one in college who has both facets of the game so well developed.

Things the Panthers must consider:

Pass rushing/run stopping 4-3 DEs are rather rare. I read somehwere (don't ask for a frigging link because I am not finding it for people who can't figure it out) that the average is about 1 per year. DTs are much more common.

Since Brown will probably never be more than a pass-rushing specialist, are we content to go with Charles Johnson (potentially a free agent) and Greg Hardy (a rookie last season with a collegiate injury history who struggled vs. the run)? Is it possible that we are not as set at DE as we think?

NEED? Look at what we have:

Charles Johnson: I think we will re-sign him. However, he could decide to explore free agency and I see him with some value as a DE in a 3-4 as well as a 4-3. I think he likes it here, but one never knows.

Greg Hardy: Was pretty good vs. the pass last year but struggled vs. the Run. He has a bit of an injury history at Ole Miss, but was healthy in limited action in 2010. If he continues to develop, he could be a good bookend for CJ, if we re-sign CJ.

Everette Brown: Florida State DEs have not done well in the NFL, especially in 4-3s. Brian Baker said Brown hit a wall last year. He added about 15 pounds in the offseason to make him better vs the run, an experiment I think may have failed. I suggest getting back to 250 and shopping him as a 3-4 OLB or keeping him as a designated pass rusher when CJ and Hardy move inside.

Tyler Brayton: Tyler is the other half of Brown, he stuffs the run but rarely pressures the passer. a 4-3 needs pass rushing DEs. He is also getting old.

DE is not a high need pick right now, but it could be if CJ walks. DT is a need pick, but the DTs in the draft are good through the top 100 players. With a veteran FA, I imagine a pretty decent DT will fall to the 65th pick.

QB, CB, and possibly WR are also needs, but if the Panthers are not sold on a QB and/or cannot trade out of the first pick, they will not take Newton IMO. They will turn to Fairley/Dareus, Green, or Bowers.

Bowers is the most rare. He is a 4-3 DE when not many come out so NFL ready. He could easily be the pick. You could argue for Quinn, and J. Sheard of Pittsburgh could be there in the second round. This may be the best year in a while for 4-3 DEs (even though Quinn seems to be more of a 3-4 guy).

I do not want this, but if we let CJ walk I want this very much. Get the DE, sign the DT later. Even if CJ stays, DE is crucial to a 4-3 defense and having 3 or4 good ones would make us awesome at that postition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i can't predict the future, but i can potentially see brayton being let go. there's not much commitment to him contract-wise and while he is a gamer, he is not disciplined enough to be dependable in the running game. with the change in defensive philosophy rivera and mcdermott are going to want to get their kind of guys in for depth. i can see hardy battling for a starting role, as well as bowers if he is drafted, but brayton does not have a lot of untapped potential, and his decision-making and stubborn neglect of keeping contain can drive coaches mad sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

dude stop bowers is not going to be the pick.....this team has way to may holes to stock up on DEs

You do not know that. A 4-3 team would have a hard time passing on Bowers, especially when the draft is before free agency and your best DE is a free agent. Common sense.

I am not for it either, but I sport an open mind and a knowledge of NFL drafts. You have ruled out drafting the BPA, and you don't know what the Panthers board looks like. How can you say that he is not going to be the pick? Or do you mean that you don't think he will be the pick because the Panthers:

A. Have agreed to terms with Charles Johnson

B. Do not have Bowers on the top of their board

C. Will draft based on need and not BPA

If you do not know these things, then you can't know that they won't pick Bowers. There are other rounds and free agency. This pick does not have to be DT or QB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ugh, yeah.

To expand on something you said, I'd rather be solid along the entire front four rather than have two stud DE's.

I'm my wildest dreams we sign Haloti Ngata, draft DT and have a nasty DL, and awesome D as a result.

Yes. We need a top DT in the draft and a stud DT in free agency. I would take Cofield or the Seattle DT as well. Neblett was a pleasant surprise at the end of last season. He played Pouncey even.

The Panthers need to sign CJ. If he leaves for free agency, and if they don't tag him it could be up to him--not us. We are tagging Kalil and free agency will probably happen after the draft. Our DTs can be solid, but if the Jim Johnson 4-3 has no proven DEs, we are in worse shape than without DTs.

I think we could draft Bowers if they are unsure about CJ. Then they would draft DT with the 65th pick (I imagine a good one will drop to 65) and pick up a high priced free agent (money they would have spent on CJ anyway).

Not at all what I want, but I like to consider all angles. If I am a defensive-minded coach and I know how important DEs are and Bowers is sitting there, how do you pass when your only proven DE could go FA? You don't. Peppers set the price for top 4-3 DEs. DTs are more common.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • What's up gents, the OGs remember me, the guy who single-handedly gave the Panthers the greatest uniform in history moniker. Not too long after that I got involved with Pro Football Focus (pre-Collinsworth acquisition) and ended up taking backseat here to preserve some objectivity. But from a distance I noticed a lot. After the end of the Cam era this place devolved into the most un-fun, petty, negative cesspool of whining and bitching that has ever graced the internet. The worst part of it all is that the level of discussion turned into the most ill-informed, hot-take, unnuanced crap, rife with people talking out of their posteriors as if they have any clue about what they are watching. Once you get into the professional side of the sport and actual film rooms, you start to understand there's an absurd number of moving parts to pretty much every snap and the details you are privy to are truly only half the picture. The absolute most important thing I learned from being part of professional level football analysis is that quarterbacking is literally the most intricate and difficult position in all of professional sports, and that the NFL itself is struggling to develop any workable model that allows them to understand what makes one succeed vs what makes one fail. Because of this paradox it has also made the quarterback position itself grossly overvalued from a fan and media standpoint, creating an absurd fixation on the results delivered by a single player who has to rely on the contributions of everyone around them. This also drives the dreaded inflation of QB salaries that inevitably cause even elite teams to lose key talent all to pour cash into the one player supposed to be able to single-handedly elevate the entire team (and defense and special teams and coaching and ownership by some mysterious proxy), yet without those same players even talented teams can wander the wilderness searching for the right guy to take advantage of their talent window. The discussions the last few years around Bryce has personified this insanity, as this board has devolved into some sort of electronic civil war between the hyperbolic Young supporters and the vitriolic Bryce haters. The reality, like practically everything in this world, is somewhere in the middle. He has traits that can absolutely elevate a team with creativity, play recognition, off-arm angle throws, mental toughness, etc. He's also physically limited, with mostly "good-enough" qualities for most situations that a professional quarterback is asked to do, and will never be an overpowering physical force like pre-injury Cam. But "good-enough" physicality represents a large majority of championship-winning quarterbacks, even in the modern era. There's a reason the corpse of Peyton Manning took the chip from elite physical specimen Cam, because the team surrounding him was talented enough to get him there, while we all know Cam was the driving force of that 2015 team. That's no knock on him, that's just how the game of football tends to work: the more complete team usually wins. The summary is this: if this team lives or dies solely on the performance of its quarterback, then it is absolutely a paper tiger even if he plays brilliantly week in and out. There are no superheroes in this sport, there are only conduits that proxy the collective efforts of much of the team around them. And no one alive can tell you how the position is played perfectly, it's all a confluence of circumstance and what unique collection of traits each player brings to the position, which can never be truly recreated season after season, even for the same player on the same team. If this place remains a raging hellscape of idiotic hot takes I will happily remove myself again and do something more productive for yet another decade, but maybe's there hope that we can all get back to the old adage, and keep pounding.
    • Really impressed how the bottom six have looked the past couple games
    • 1st ⭐️ Big Bussi - 17 saves, .941 save % 2nd ⭐️ Logan Dankoven - 2 assists, 3 SOG, +3, 16:25 TOI 3rd ⭐️ Ghost Bear - 1 goal, 3 blocked shots, +2, 18:48 TOI
×
×
  • Create New...