An honest look at Bryce Young

[mrcompletely11]

Bryces ypa was roughly 6.5 ish, which would be bottom 3rd of the nfl.  Again averaging 200 yards 60% so something most certainly isnt adding up with Pff stats

Edited 5 hours ago by mrcompletely11

[ForJimmy]

15 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Bryces ypa was roughly 6.5 ish, which would be bottom 3rd of the nfl.  Again averaging 200 yards 60% so something most certainly isnt adding up with Pff stats

So where are you at here?  PFF is fabricating stats to make Bryce look better??

[mrcompletely11]

13 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

So where are you at here?  PFF is fabricating stats to make Bryce look better??

Not at all just trying to understand their data

[CPF4LIFE]

Never even heard of a "big time throw" stat till bryce started playing better last year. 

[Icege]

re: PFF having Bryce Young as the best deep passer in week 12

Link to original article

Excerpt from the article:

PFF's passing-by-depth report for week 12

NFL Pro's Film Room

Play 1 - Completion to XL running a deep crosser despite multiple penalties by KC on the play

Play 2 - Completion to JT with the pass rush closing in

Play 3 - Hits David Moore in the hands while taking a shot from new Panthers' DL Ter'shawn Wharton for what would've been a TD

Play 4 - This is the first play that folks could attempt to pin on Bryce if not for one detail... this was 3rd & 10 with 9sec left in Q2 (as seen in the screenshot showing the list of plays). Bryce had to air mail it out of the back of the end zone so that there was still time to attempt a field goal before halftime.

Play 5 - Bryce places this ball where only David Moore can get it (spoiler: Moore does not get it). I've included the other angle as I was confident that some would try to hyperfocus on this play as why PFF was wrong in their evaluation. It's worth noting though that this wasn't a drop

 

Play 6 - Sideline shot to XL but he drops it. Again, both angles included to avoid bad faith misrepresentation.

  Edited 5 hours ago by Icege

[ForJimmy]

9 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Never even heard of a "big time throw" stat till bryce started playing better last year. 

PFF made it up just to make Bryce look better. Crazy right?

Also I can’t believe you said he played “better.” Careful and you might let a compliment slip…. (kidding)

[CRA]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Yeah PFF has him ranked the fifth best qb since week 9 which has been posted already.

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/news/advanced-analytics-bryce-young-superstar

 

We find what we are looking for. Took me a minute or less to find it. I bet you want to argue with this too. Found 2 more articles ranking him 11th and 14th but didn't include them since you wanted top 10.

yeah, but gets into what I have been saying. The argument doesn’t exist without PFF

in a world where 2 of 7 and 0 TDs is better than 3 of 4 with a TD.  That’s the PFF world.  

and if you put PFF to the side and use everything else….there is virtually no argument. 

[CRA]

3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

The Chiefs game?  Where are you getting 2-7?  Just glancing at the box score Moore has a long catch of 21 yards, AT 36 yards, XL 34 yards, and JT 28 yards.  Were these all YAC receptions?  I'd be surprised to see that since we typically were terrible at YAC....  I guess another question is what is considered a "deep" pass because I think the league and some fans have different opinions on that. 

It's all arbitrary as people all have different opinions on the data that makes up these stats.  All I know is he was able to open up the offense more by pushing the ball down the field.  Something he was reluctant to do before his benching.

I’m getting 2 of 7 off his passing chart that day for balls that traveled at least 20 yards in the air.   And 20 yards in the air is largely the consensus of a deep ball.  

that’s why I keep saying people are just running with a headline.  Because his best in the week deep declaration is based off a 2 of 7 day.  PFF is declaring him best off the day and using plays like a 50/50 jump ball to AT that went incomplete to build it.  That week was full of guys that factually were better deep…..everywhere but PFFs website.  Lamar, Stafford, Nix and on and on were all better in reality that week.  Hell, Mahomes in that same game.   PFF basically does a what if alternate reality on those deep throws.  So the volume of just throwing up a jump ball aids the PFF stat pending it’s a good 50/50 ball. 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I’m getting 2 of 7 off his passing chart that day for balls that traveled at least 20 yards in the air.   And 20 yards in the air is largely the consensus of a deep ball.  

that’s why I keep saying people are just running with a headline.  Because his best in the week deep declaration is based off a 2 of 7 day.  PFF is declaring him best off the day and using plays like a 50/50 jump ball to AT that went incomplete to build it.  That week was full of guys that factually were better deep…..everywhere but PFFs website.  Lamar, Stafford, Nix and on and on were all better in reality that week.  Hell, Mahomes in that same game.   PFF basically does a what if alternate reality on those deep throws.  

What it tries to do is grade each player individually IMO. If XL drops a nice pass it tries to make it not hurt the player than threw the pass and if on a similar pass a WR like DK makes a leaping one handed catch it tries to even out how much credit the QB gets vs the WR. Yeah it has grey areas because some of it can fall under opinion despite them using specific measurements and charts to justify their definitions. Like it or not PFF isn’t going anywhere. Analytics are trending up right now. 

[CRA]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Look above. He was ranked top 10 by PFF which everyone uses until it doesn't serve their purpose Why not just admit you were wrong instead of doubling down and looking worse.

 

 

Difference between you and I here on this convo….is you only acknowledge PFF.   It’s hyper fixation from folks that get creative  and blinders to the rest. 

Put that one website to the side, and all the other aspects we use to declare what top 10 looks like wouldn’t put Bryce in that type talk. 
 

 

[CRA]

18 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

What it tries to do is grade each player individually IMO. If XL drops a nice pass it tries to make it not hurt the player than threw the pass and if on a similar pass a WR like DK makes a leaping one handed catch it tries to even out how much credit the QB gets vs the WR. Yeah it has grey areas because some of it can fall under opinion despite them using specific measurements and charts to justify their definitions. Like it or not PFF isn’t going anywhere. Analytics are trending up right now. 

It’s all well and good.  All I am saying is the entire Bryce Young was a top 10 QB argument doesn’t exist without singularly using PFF as the argument .   And you concede it has gray area.  I mean we know as good as they can be there way of doing things ends up saying some wild stuff.  Everyone has essentially at some point gone at PFF

so all the other info that isn’t PFF has to factor too in the convo.   And Bryce is nowhere close in the ballpark there 

[frankw]

Obliterating one another over data that can be skewed one way or another to fit a narrative is a long dead beaten horse here on the huddle. It still boils down to the eye test and a larger sample size for me. If we get that over the course of the bulk of next season then we've got something and things are looking up.

[ForJimmy]

15 minutes ago, CRA said:

It’s all well and good.  All I am saying is the entire Bryce Young was a top 10 QB argument doesn’t exist without singularly using PFF fans the argument .   And you concede it has gray area.  I mean we know as good as they can be there way of doing things ends up saying some wild stuff.  Everyone has essentially at some point gone at PFF

so all the other info that isn’t PFF has to factor too in the convo.   And Bryce is nowhere close in the ballpark there 

A majority of stats are going to have gray areas…. As I stated a QB throwing check downs in the 4th during a blowout gets free yardage so why should those passing yards be held in the same regard as one from a QB getting pressured on a game winning drive? All stats need context, it why these debates will go on and on forever. 
The most anyone is saying is that he was playing like a top 10ish QB during a certain portion of the season. I don’t think anyone is proclaiming anything too crazy 

[CRA]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

The most anyone is saying is that he was playing like a top 10ish QB during a certain portion of the season. I don’t think anyone is proclaiming anything too crazy 

Yeah, the cherry pick.  Last 2 games of the season he played great.  But a couple random games isn’t top 10 QB talk.  Because we don’t exclude all the bad from the other 32.   That’s my problem with cherry picked top 10 talk….one guy in the convo gets cherry picked data and everyone else has their bad included for Bryce to sniff them. 

but the last 2 games also run wildly counter to the rest of his work post benching.  And that XL Philly drop carries wild weight vs Philly.  It was a throw he should have been caught for an upset.  People revisit that game and act like he played great that day.  Or a good statistical game like AZ where he wasn’t doing much.. Hubbard was the O.