Cherelus down. We need to be talking about LBs even more

[PantherChris]

2 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

The dude for the Colts was really good for a few years, I forgot his name. 

I know that Luke was a unicorn. That said, instead of finding even above average LB play in the middle has not been on the teams to do list, and it's shown. We went from one end of the spectrum to the other, and I really, really hate it. There is nothing more beautiful than seeing an ILB just blast out of nowhere into the backfield to chase a back to the sideline. Or take off upfield against a tight end and bat a ball away. 

As I said though, we have a Top 7 corner in the league, and we finished with the worst defense in NFL history. For everyone saying that corner is more important than defensive linemen and the interior of the defense, you're crazy. College corners are more important because the hashes are wider and you've got more ground to cover. In the NFL, the play action is condensed and that middle of the defense becomes that much more important.

Note, Sweisenger is going to be the next great MLB in the league. He may not be Luke but he is that quintessential type of dude. 

Leonard had three good seasons and his best year was his rookie season... he put up comparable stats to Luke his first year but he didn't elevate the indy defense the way luke did ours.

 

As a former linebacker and someone who two out of my 3 favorite all time Panthers were MLBs I agree with you whole heartedly (Luke and Dan) a true Elite MLB is the field general and tone setter of a defense.

[PantherChris]

5 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Luke absolutely was. He was almost as important as a quarterback. I don't know if they quantify wins and losses attributed to linebacker but if they do, Luke was undervalued. He was a top 10 player in the league for years, and should be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Had Luke played for the Ravens, he undoubtedly would have been a first ballot. 

Instead he languished here, and ultimately helped build a culture which the two Dave's worked to ruin. 

I dont know about wins because you still have to score but adding just Luke in the Middle was worth a minimum of 10 spots in defensive rankings.

[CPcavedweller]

5 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

I dont know about wins because you still have to score but adding just Luke in the Middle was worth a minimum of 10 spots in defensive rankings.

It sure was. I went back and re-watched the 2015 playoffs as well. I don't recall ever seeing a stretch of MLB play like that in the NFL. That was better than anything I saw out of Urlacher or Lewis, and both of those guys were great but they were also surrounded by greatness. 

[Navy_football]

3 hours ago, shaq said:

The one undeniable mistake Dan Morgan has made was letting Frankie Luvu walk last offseason. We had developed him into one of the best LBS in the league and let him walk in his prime for nothing in return, dude was just an All Pro last season. 

Yeah. But they did try to sign him. He just chose DC over Carolina. In hindsight, it was a GREAT decision by him.

[Navy_football]

40 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

Leonard had three good seasons and his best year was his rookie season... he put up comparable stats to Luke his first year but he didn't elevate the indy defense the way luke did ours.

 

As a former linebacker and someone who two out of my 3 favorite all time Panthers were MLBs I agree with you whole heartedly (Luke and Dan) a true Elite MLB is the field general and tone setter of a defense.

I really, really, really agree with this. 

[TD alt]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm talking about how you get all emo and have to grossly oversimplify everyone else's takes because you don't have the mental horsepower to actually argue against them and you have to resort to exactly this type of embarrassing tactics where you desperately try to come off as intelligent but end up coming across like a juvenile midwit.

Just make your points and don't take it so personal when people disagree. Good grief, man. We're just talking about football. It's gonna be alright.

You obviously have a problem with people making a point and supporting a point. The ONLY thing that I have taken personal in this place is personal attacks.

In my experience, the only ones that question a person's intelligence and use terms like "midwit," are those that take things personally and have questionable intelligence themselves. I already know that I'm intelligent, and some twit on a message board isn't going to change my mind. 

If you don't want to discuss football-related issues on a football message board, then why are you here? That's a rhetorical question.

[shaqattaq]

First off, no one has mentioned how banged up Cherelus is.

Second, even if he is out for an extended time period, he's replaceable. Bam, Barnes, or Windmon (or another team's cut) gonna need to step up. Even the article quoted by OP says:

"To be fair, for now this is probably a bigger deal for Carolina's special teams unit than for their defense. Last year Cherelus only played 17% of the team's defensive snaps. Still, even though Cherelus was only a backup's backup at linebacker, it's not like this group could afford to lose anybody heading into the preseason"

TBF: Cherelus WAS reportedly having a good camp. but still...

Edited August 8 by shaqattaq

[TD alt]

46 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Yeah. But they did try to sign him. He just chose DC over Carolina. In hindsight, it was a GREAT decision by him.

it was a good decision. It was reported that the Panthers offered slightly better money as well. Some say that Washington's scheme fit was better suited for him as well. 

And to think, he was a UDFA turned journeyman...

Edited August 8 by TD alt

[LinvilleGorge]

14 minutes ago, TD alt said:

You obviously have a problem with people making a point and supporting a point. The ONLY thing that I have taken personal in this place is personal attacks.

In my experience, the only ones that question a person's intelligence and use terms like "midwit," are those that take things personally and have questionable intelligence themselves. I already know that I'm intelligent, and some twit on a message board isn't going to change my mind. 

If you don't want to discuss football-related issues on a football message board, then why are you here? That's a rhetorical question.

LOL

You really should reflect back on your own posts and then your own advice from this post.

It just cracks me up watching you come up with these pitches that evidently you think everyone is going to find brilliant, few agree, then watch as your frustration escalated to sell it and then you ultimately resort to this stuff.

[Waldo]

Warm body needs to be replaced by another warm body...

The 2 LBers down appear to me as an opportunity more than a negative. Jewell wasn't much and Cherelus hasn't done anything much. Seems like more of an opportunity than anything to me.

[TD alt]

12 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

LOL

You really should reflect back on your own posts and then your own advice from this post.

It just cracks me up watching you come up with these pitches that evidently you think everyone is going to find brilliant, few agree, then watch as your frustration escalated to sell it and then you ultimately resort to this stuff.

I came up with a post regarding our weak LB situation getting even weaker. It's not "brilliant," it's just a fact. The fact that you would even suggest that just goes to show that you have personal issues with me. Don't read my damned posts if they bother you so much. 

Have I ever cared if "few people" agree with me or not? But you can say "few people" all you like. That certainly doesn't make it true.

The only person, and moderator to boot, that resorts to "this stuff" is you. You're the resident moderator troll to be honest. You shouldn't even be a moderator because you take things too personally, love to call names, and are obviously not even-keeled in temperament which is what makes a great mod. 

Edited August 8 by TD alt

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I came up with a post regarding our weak LB situation getting even weaker. It's not "brilliant," it's just a fact. The fact that you would even suggest that just goes to show that you have personal issues with me. Don't read my damned posts if they bother you so much. 

Have I ever cared if "few people" agree with me or not. But you can say "few people" all you like. That certainly doesn't make it true.

The only person, and moderator to boot, that resorts to "this stuff" is you. You're the resident moderator troll to be honest. You shouldn't even be a moderator because you take things too personally, love to call names, and are obviously not even-keeled in temperament which is what makes a great mod. 

I'm just pointing out what you always do. Yeah, everyone knows LB is a weak spot. Most fans just realize that we're highly unlikely to make any moves until other teams start trimming their rosters and more bodies become available.

But you always resort to this type of woe is woe is me stuff mischaracterizing the arguments of others and insinuating that they just couldn't comprehend the intelligence of your viewpoint when people don't come rushing to acknowledge your brilliance.

7 hours ago, TD alt said:

What I learned from this thread: any ol' linebacker off the waiver wire will do when it comes to backups. They all come with the same strengths and weakness, and are basically carbon copy throwaways. Equally of no importance, is their importance on special teams. 

That's it, that's all man. 

[TD alt]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm just pointing out what you always do. Yeah, everyone knows LB is a weak spot. Most fans just realize that we're highly unlikely to make any moves until other teams start trimming their rosters and more bodies become available.

But you always resort to this type of woe is woe is me stuff mischaracterizing the arguments of others and insinuating that they just couldn't comprehend the intelligence of your viewpoint when people don't come rushing to acknowledge your brilliance.

That's it, that's all man. 

"I guess we'll see come cuts." I wonder what that could possibly mean.

[LinvilleGorge]

18 minutes ago, TD alt said:

"I guess we'll see come cuts." I wonder what that could possibly mean.

It means that we're going to be diving in the dumpster bin for LBs. A reality that most fans came to grips with long ago. You want to make a splash move at LB, I get it. It's just that for most Panthers fans we've been watching this organization make knee jerk moves trying to assemble the best bad team they can duct tape together with seemingly no long-term vision. Most of us are ready to move past that approach. LB is going to be a weak spot this year. That's a better situation that the DL and pass rush being a weak spot and that's why we spent this off-season focusing on DL and pass rush. We also signed a premium FA safety and drafted a mid-round safety who are good in the box defenders. The D should be greatly improved. Is it going to be a top 10 unit? Highly unlikely. The goal is try to go from bottom of the barrel to middle of the pack. We weren't fixing everything in one off-season and we made the strategic call that off the ball LBs are the easier spot to find stop gap players and we spent cap space and draft picks trying to fill more premium needs.