Can we all admit it now?

[Loyalty4Life]

33 minutes ago, CRA said:

but you specifically were alluding to games Bryce was able to flip a switch and balled in....when it wasn't garbage time.  You protested that he didn't only flip the switch and ball in garbage time and listed games. 

just naming a close game doesn't equate to Bryce therefore balled.   Which is what I was calling out.   He didn't "ball out" in those games I selected from your list.  

Bar is so weirdly low w/ Bryce.  

I've never said "balled out".  The statement was that Bryce only plays well when there is no pressure and when the game is out of reach.

That is a lie. I named numerous games where he played well. I never said he flipped any kind of switch. 

Bryce Young has played well in some games in the first half.
Bryce Young has played well in some games in the 2nd half.
Bryce Young has played well in some games under pressure.
Bryce Young has played well in the final drive with the game on the line in multiple games.

All of those show he is not just a Jag that shows up in garbage time when the game is out of reach.  

I named the close games in response to a different question being that we were the opposite of a competitive team over the last 10 games last year.  We won 4, got blown out in 3 and were competitive in 7.  Two were in OT which is about as competitive as it gets.  Seven out of 10 games where we lost or won by less than a TD would be defined as competitive and that would certainly not qualify as "the opposite" of competitive.   

Edited 3 hours ago by Loyalty4Life

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

I've never said "balled out".  The statement was that Bryce only plays well when there is no pressure and when the game is out of reach.

That is a lie. I named numerous games where he played well. I never said he flipped any kind of switch. 

Bryce Young has played well in some games in the first half.
Bryce Young has played well in some games in the 2nd half.
Bryce Young has played well in some game under pressure.
Bryce Young has played well in the final drive with the game on the line in some games.

All of those show he is not just a Jag that shows up in garbage time when the game is out of reach.  

I named the close games in response to a different question being that we were the opposite of a competitive team over the last 10 games last year.  We won 4, got blown out in 3 and were competitive in 7.  Two were in OT which is about as competitive as it gets.  Seven out of 10 games where we lost or won by less than a TD would be defined as competitive and that would certainly not qualify as "the opposite" of competitive.   

you called the post that he only turned on his "baller switch" in garbage time a lie....and listed games in the same post. 

there was a separate post where I said we haven't been competitive w/ Bryce.  

so we probably are mushing the two things together.   As far as the non-competitive statement, no we haven't been competitive with Bryce.  We are 6-24 with Bryce.  That's not competitive.  Was the AZ game last year competitive and did we win? Sure.  That wasn't because of Bryce.  Was the Eagles game close? Sure.  That wasn't because of Bryce, Bryce played poorly.  That was because the Eagles laid an egg and kept it close. 

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

you called the post that he only turned on his "baller switch" in garbage time a lie....and listed games in the same post. 

there was a separate post where I said we haven't been competitive w/ Bryce.  

so we probably are mushing the two things together.   As far as the non-competitive statement, no we haven't been competitive with Bryce.  We are 6-24 with Bryce.  That's not competitive.  Was the AZ game last year competitive and did we win? Sure.  That wasn't because of Bryce.  Was the Eagles game close? Sure.  That wasn't because of Bryce, Bryce played poorly.  That was because the Eagles laid an egg and kept it close. 

I loved how all the Bryce defenders kept pointing to us hanging right there with the Chiefs and Eagles as the proof that Bryce turned the corner.

But completely dismissed when people would point out that there was a 99.99% chance that both those teams just looked past us those weeks and didn't take the game as seriously as they should have.  It's like they didn't realize that happens ALL THE TIME in all professional sports.  

The best teams in the league often are in close games with the worst teams in the league because they mentally took the week off.  Sure, sometimes they still beat the poo out of them too, but when those games are close, 99 times out of 100, it's because the better team got lazy, not because the crap team all of a sudden turned a corner.

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, strato said:

I understand very clearly that Wilks’ approach in ‘22 wasn’t going to make us able to beat the better teams, but he got us competing and succeeding against the teams we should beat, similar teams to us. And it felt the best any stretch has felt, under Tepper. 
But Tepper and the mob here had to have themselves the Offensive Minded HC, play caller guru. How’s that working out? 
 

I know this: guys in the locker room were all about Wilks. He equaled or bested the win total of every other coach under Tepper before or since. It is a fact, and not for nothin. 
 

FWIW I didn’t think he was gifted as a DC, when he was here as the DC. But he was excellent coaching DBs. All those jobs are different I guess, take different skill sets. I think his strength as a HC was getting people to follow him. That goes a long way. 

After what has befallen this team since rejecting him, I don’t feel like a lesser fan for supporting him, I promise you that. 

He was great to change up the failed Rhule culture black hole. Which was wasted the next year

He had his shot and made enough mistakes to get passed over. Same with his 1 year as SF's DC. His defensive unit got worse as the year went on here and the offense stagnated after the initial burst into competency. He was a great bridge away from Rhule but Im not seeing a good HC prospect. To me it's like wanting Moore back just to get away from Young. Not really good enough IMO but I absolutely respect what he did you get away from the Rhule mess.

[electro's horse]

3 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He was great to change up the failed Rhule culture black hole. Which was wasted the next year

He had his shot and made enough mistakes to get passed over. Same with his 1 year as SF's DC. His defensive unit got worse as the year went on here and the offense stagnated after the initial burst into competency. He was a great bridge away from Rhule but Im not seeing a good HC prospect. To me it's like wanting Moore back just to get away from Young. Not really good enough IMO but I absolutely respect what he did you get away from the Rhule mess.

Everyone got hurt while he was in San Fran, and they just had a bunch of general regression to the mean. 

it seems like Wilks biggest problem is that he’s difficult to work with, and he can rub players and fellow coaches the wrong way. He obviously had a lot of respect in the panthers locker room he wouldn’t necessarily have in San Fran. He was also probably saying a lot of things everyone else was thinking about Al Snow, Rhule, that weird DB coach he fired after the bengals game etc. 

Edited 2 hours ago by electro's horse

[Waldo]

21 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Everyone got hurt while he was in San Fran, and they just had a bunch of general regression to the mean. 

it seems like Wilks biggest problem is that he’s difficult to work with, and he can rub players and fellow coaches the wrong way. He obviously had a lot of respect in the panthers locker room he wouldn’t necessarily have in San Fran. He was also probably saying a lot of things everyone else was thinking about Al Snow, Rhule, that weird DB coach he fired after the bengals game etc. 

The SF people hated him after losing a great DC. His in game stuff wasn't praised at all.

I just don't think he is a good DC or HC. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets move on after a year too. Seems to be the norm. 

 

[WhoKnows]

6 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

That part right there, how many times have we seen Aaron Rodgers as an example use those types of moments as an opportunity to take a shot downfield or into the endzone...

For the ''IQ'' and ''Processing, his brain is like a computer'' talk, he consistently seems average at best in the majority of these situations.

So true. Rodgers would have immediately targets his WR1, with no hesitation. Young should have it in his head that an offsides equals a ball to TMac with zero shots given. Just right to him even if he’s quadruple teamed.

He threw the ball so far out of bounds that he absolutely had to have been throwing it away, not just a bad deep throw.

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

I loved how all the Bryce defenders kept pointing to us hanging right there with the Chiefs and Eagles as the proof that Bryce turned the corner.

But completely dismissed when people would point out that there was a 99.99% chance that both those teams just looked past us those weeks and didn't take the game as seriously as they should have.  It's like they didn't realize that happens ALL THE TIME in all professional sports.  

The best teams in the league often are in close games with the worst teams in the league because they mentally took the week off.  Sure, sometimes they still beat the poo out of them too, but when those games are close, 99 times out of 100, it's because the better team got lazy, not because the crap team all of a sudden turned a corner.

When people keep bringing that up, remind them that Rhule’s first season included Teddy blowing chances to beat GB and KC who were the 2 playoff #1 seeds that year and Rhule started off his second season 3-1 with a close loss to Dallas and Darnold had 10 total TDs in those 4 games. Even with that, Rhule was universally disliked and booted in year 3 so the Philly/KC games mean nothing. We’ve gotten worse since Rhule and it honestly feels a lot further away from the playoffs.

[tukafan21]

10 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

So true. Rodgers would have immediately targets his WR1, with no hesitation. Young should have it in his head that an offsides equals a ball to TMac with zero shots given. Just right to him even if he’s quadruple teamed.

He threw the ball so far out of bounds that he absolutely had to have been throwing it away, not just a bad deep throw.

Yup, watch the second play of this clip…

His college QB knew this, if you get an offsides free play, you have to throw it up to T-Mac no matter what, every single time.

[strato]

44 minutes ago, Waldo said:

He was great to change up the failed Rhule culture black hole. Which was wasted the next year

He had his shot and made enough mistakes to get passed over. Same with his 1 year as SF's DC. His defensive unit got worse as the year went on here and the offense stagnated after the initial burst into competency. He was a great bridge away from Rhule but Im not seeing a good HC prospect. To me it's like wanting Moore back just to get away from Young. Not really good enough IMO but I absolutely respect what he did you get away from the Rhule mess.

I know he caught most of the grief over Mike Evans. While using street FAs or practice squad guys to cover him. 3 times. I understand that excuses are just excuses and it did happen. 
 

Still, his record of 6-6  in 12 games beat out every single head coach in the Tepper era except 2018 Rivera who won 7 but had 16 tries. So I misspoke when I said every single coach in the Tepper era because 2018. But he got everybody else. 
I think he was a better HC than a DC no doubt. Hell I wasn’t impressed with him as our DC. After totally loving him as the DB coach. 
Anyway I don’t feel bad about preferring him over all this crap since. 
 

[electro's horse]

20 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

When people keep bringing that up, remind them that Rhule’s first season included Teddy blowing chances to beat GB and KC who were the 2 playoff #1 seeds that year and Rhule started off his second season 3-1 with a close loss to Dallas and Darnold had 10 total TDs in those 4 games. Even with that, Rhule was universally disliked and booted in year 3 so the Philly/KC games mean nothing. We’ve gotten worse since Rhule and it honestly feels a lot further away from the playoffs.

Tedy blew the game? What game were you watching?

Dude was the only reason they were in it. 

this was agains the chiefs, sorry. 

Edited 1 hour ago by electro's horse

[Waldo]

8 minutes ago, strato said:

I know he caught most of the grief over Mike Evans. While using street FAs or practice squad guys to cover him. 3 times. I understand that excuses are just excuses and it did happen. 
 

Still, his record of 6-6  in 12 games beat out every single head coach in the Tepper era except 2018 Rivera who won 7 but had 16 tries. So I misspoke when I said every single coach in the Tepper era because 2018. But he got everybody else. 
I think he was a better HC than a DC no doubt. Hell I wasn’t impressed with him as our DC. After totally loving him as the DB coach. 
Anyway I don’t feel bad about preferring him over all this crap since. 
 

I just think it's time to do better. There isn't much in the rear view i miss in the Tepper eror

[strato]

Just now, Waldo said:

I just think it's time to do better. There isn't much in the rear view i miss in the Tepper eror

Sure let’s do better. I want a bad ass defensive guy. Vrabel would have made me happy. 

Finesse teams do offense. And we are damned sure trying to do finesse. Can’t even do that right, we have nothing going. 
 

 

[Loyalty4Life]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

you called the post that he only turned on his "baller switch" in garbage time a lie....and listed games in the same post. 

there was a separate post where I said we haven't been competitive w/ Bryce.  

so we probably are mushing the two things together.   As far as the non-competitive statement, no we haven't been competitive with Bryce.  We are 6-24 with Bryce.  That's not competitive.  Was the AZ game last year competitive and did we win? Sure.  That wasn't because of Bryce.  Was the Eagles game close? Sure.  That wasn't because of Bryce, Bryce played poorly.  That was because the Eagles laid an egg and kept it close. 

It a message board so I can see the difference in what we are talking about.

Quote by 45cat:
"Yes, but it's only in these circumstances where he thrives, that's the problem  He can't be a true franchise QB and wait until the game is out of reach when the defense goes into prevent defense to finally flip on his baller switch."

The circumstances where he thrives being only times when the game is out of reach and garbage time.
That is the lie.

It was 45cat who defined his play in garbage time as "turning on his baller switch". 

I don't think I've even given the illusion that Bryce "can" be a franchise QB if he only "flips on his baller switch" during garbage time.  I don't think anyone has ever said that.  The whole point of what he is saying is that you can't give Bryce credit for garbage time.  I agree.

I just happen to think it's hyperbole to say that is the only time he's played well.  There are more than 2 choices of "He sucks, cut him.  Worst QB ever" and "Franchise QB".  I've consistently said over and over that despite his bad play, he has only shown a ton of improvement overall in the last 10 games from last year.  The difference from game 1 last year to game 18 was something very few fans even thought possible.

People saying he was too small and would never hold up in the NFL.  Dude can take a shot.  People saying he doesn't have the ability to throw down the field.  That great pass in game 1 from this year that Nola should have caught in the endzone was 43 yards in the air.  He can make all the throws.

They said he can't throw when pressured.  Was one of the top QB's under pressure over the 2nd half of last season.  
They said he doesn't throw deep.  Had one of the highest deep pass attempts in the league over the 2nd half of the season.
They said, Oh, well, he can but he's not good at it.  Of those deep passes he was one of the most accurate despite a high drop rate by his receivers.

People keep saying it's been 3 years.  That's enough time to see he sucks.  In reality it's been 2 years and 2 games.  There is no way I'll ever believe his rookie year didn't set him back.  No matter what was said it was a horrible situation on every level.  We are trying to come out of and build from that Frank Reich year which I hope was the bottom of the barrel.  I've never seen a worse situation for a rookie QB, maybe for any QB. 

I don't think it's that much of a stretch after how bad that year was for any players development to set it aside and say that year doesn't paint an accurate picture.    

I'm not even arguing for Bryce in so much as I'm arguing to have more patience and quit with the hyperbole and over the top statement or outright lies.  It's only because a handful of the same people have hated Bryce since he was drafted and have rarely given him credit for what he has done and can do.

It's the lack of an accurate representation of Bryce and our situation and the development of players.

2021 - It was Derrick Brown's 2nd year, week 11.  He was benched.  Calls to trade him.  He sucks.  The Panthers are cursed.  Fast forward a few years and he has developed into one of the best players on the team and a Captain.  

I don't know if Bryce will spiral and completely bust or if it's just a rocky road to stardom like so many players before him.  We have very little to lose and everything to gain by staying the course right now.