Bryce Slinging Dots Downfield

[Jon Snow]

10 minutes ago, strato said:

The point was it was exaggeration. If everyone agrees that little touch pass is dot I stand corrected. Not sure everyone agrees.  

I classify it as any pass over 20 yards that hits the receiver in stride. Key word being in stride.

[strato]

8 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I classify it as any pass over 20 yards that hits the receiver in stride. Key word being in stride.

Maybe I have the wrong concept but I think of it (dot) as a dart. To a very specific point. Usually involving a small window the ball has to pass through. 
The touch passes allow some massaging of pace by the target, in the situation where he is between the defender and the catch point. He can adjust slightly to remain in stride on a well placed and timed throw. Like sandbag a little bit and then when you have it tracked you can accelerate into the catch if you need to. There you go. In full stride. It is okay to slow down a hair if you have position on the defender you can still catch it in stride - as long as it isn’t really underthrown. Then of course you have to break stride. 

Just seems like a different type of throw. It doesn’t have to be quite as perfect. Within a couple of feet not inches. But I am outdated. 

[Jon Snow]

Just now, strato said:

Maybe I have the wrong concept but I think of it (dot) as a dart. To a very specific point. Usually involving a small window the ball has to pass through. 
The touch passes allow some massaging of pace by the target, in the situation where he is between the defender and the catch point. He can adjust slightly to remain in stride on a well placed and timed throw. Like sandbag a little bit and then when you have it tracked you can accelerate into the catch if you need to. There you go. In full stride. It is okay to slow down a hair if you have position on the defender you can still catch it in stride - as long as it isn’t really underthrown. Then of course you have to break stride. 

Just seems like a different type of throw. It doesn’t have to be quite as perfect. Within a couple of feet not inches. But I am outdated. 

I was going to add those types of throws as acceptable. I just didn't want to type all that out. In both cases it takes qb control to complete and are rare throws and completions. You may not see 1 an entire game. Most passes require adjustment due either to coverage or a rushed throw.

[Jon Snow]

5 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I was going to add those types of throws as acceptable. I just didn't want to type all that out. In both cases it takes qb control to complete and are rare throws and completions. You may not see 1 an entire game. Most passes require adjustment due either to coverage or a rushed throw.

 

Edited 57 minutes ago by Jon Snow

[Jon Snow]

10 minutes ago, strato said:

Maybe I have the wrong concept but I think of it (dot) as a dart. To a very specific point. Usually involving a small window the ball has to pass through. 
The touch passes allow some massaging of pace by the target, in the situation where he is between the defender and the catch point. He can adjust slightly to remain in stride on a well placed and timed throw. Like sandbag a little bit and then when you have it tracked you can accelerate into the catch if you need to. There you go. In full stride. It is okay to slow down a hair if you have position on the defender you can still catch it in stride - as long as it isn’t really underthrown. Then of course you have to break stride. 

Just seems like a different type of throw. It doesn’t have to be quite as perfect. Within a couple of feet not inches. But I am outdated. 

Also you are nitpicking that pass. He put it right where it needed to be and in stride. I am as big as critical as anyone about Young but I know a great pass when I see one. Those 2 passes we dots, dimes whatever the hell you want to call it. Saying otherwise makes you petty and you lose all credibility. 

[tukafan21]

34 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I classify it as any pass over 20 yards that hits the receiver in stride. Key word being in stride.

 

15 minutes ago, strato said:

Maybe I have the wrong concept but I think of it (dot) as a dart. To a very specific point. Usually involving a small window the ball has to pass through. 
The touch passes allow some massaging of pace by the target, in the situation where he is between the defender and the catch point. He can adjust slightly to remain in stride on a well placed and timed throw. Like sandbag a little bit and then when you have it tracked you can accelerate into the catch if you need to. There you go. In full stride. It is okay to slow down a hair if you have position on the defender you can still catch it in stride - as long as it isn’t really underthrown. Then of course you have to break stride. 

Just seems like a different type of throw. It doesn’t have to be quite as perfect. Within a couple of feet not inches. But I am outdated. 

 

11 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I was going to add those types of throws as acceptable. I just didn't want to type all that out. In both cases it takes qb control to complete and are rare throws and completions. You may not see 1 an entire game. Most passes require adjustment due either to coverage or a rushed throw.

I think it's more situation specific than throw specific.

A "dot", "dart", "dime", whatever you want to call it is all the same to me.  It could be a 3 yard pass or a 30 yard pass, but it's more about fitting it in a tight window, getting it just over or just under a defender's reach, putting it in the perfect place for a WR to make a back shoulder toe tap catch on the sideline, etc.

But in general, if we're talking about the type of passes for those 2 TD's, a touch pass where the WR is running past the DB and no safety help over the top, that needs to be a 40, if not 50 yards downfield for me to ever call a throw like that a "dot", "dart", "dime", etc.  Throwing that pass 20 yards is basically just practice routes against air.  They get credit for making the play in the pressure situation of a game, but I just could never justify calling a pass like that one of those terms, even if it was in the final minute of the SB to win the game.

I'll also say that Bryce has made many of these throws in his career, I've always said his biggest strength is placement of touch passes.  I just wouldn't have ever classified those two TD's this week as such.

Edited 51 minutes ago by tukafan21

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

 

 

I think it's more situation specific than throw specific.

A "dot", "dart", "dime", whatever you want to call it is all the same to me.  It could be a 3 yard pass or a 30 yard pass, but it's more about fitting it in a tight window, getting it just over or just under a defender's reach, putting it in the perfect place for a WR to make a back shoulder toe tap catch on the sideline.

But in general, if we're talking about the type of passes for those 2 TD's, a touch pass where the WR is running past the DB and no safety help over the top, that needs to be a 40, if not 50 yards downfield for me to ever call a throw like that a "dot", "dart", "dime", etc.  Throwing that pass 20 yards is basically just practice routes against air.  They get credit for making the play in the pressure situation of a game, but I just could never justify calling a pass like that one of those terms, even if it was in the final minute of the SB to win the game.

You've lost all credibility with me on that my friend. Never in the history of football has a 3 yard pass ever been called a dot, dart or anything other than a 3 yard pass. I'm not even going to discuss it further with you if your going to twist yourself in knots like this. 

[Loyalty4Life]

A Dot is any type of pass where precision, timing and accuracy are needed.  Dots, darts, dimes.  All the same.  Deep lofting passes, tight window throws, quick passes under pressure, placing a ball exactly where it needs to be in difficult situations.  If the receiver does a dance or celebration after the catch it was probably a dot.

Now, slinging I take exception with.  If the throw is off schedule that is more slanging.  Slinging is a more over the top motion.  

[WUnderhill]

Just checking in, have we locked the definition of “dot” into Merriam-Webster yet?

[tukafan21]

9 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

You've lost all credibility with me on that my friend. Never in the history of football has a 3 yard pass ever been called a dot, dart or anything other than a 3 yard pass. I'm not even going to discuss it further with you if your going to twist yourself in knots like this. 

Sorry this is 4 yards instead of 3, but I think that's still the "same thing" in this instance... you wouldn't call this pass a dot, dart, or anything else like that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_no5YnIrAb4

4 yard pass he had to get around a DL's helmet, over another defenders arm, out of reach of the DB, and still allow the receiver to make the catch.

THAT pass was a dot/dart/dime, and if you disagree with that, then sure, we'll never see eye to eye on this one.

Edited 37 minutes ago by tukafan21

[frankw]

One trend I'm seeing in these repetitive circular conversations that ultimately go nowhere is the need for people who are super defensive of him to hit the "reset button" as if he is still a rookie. Even if we can look past the 49ers loss the Saints loss is just completely inexcusable. They still only have 2 wins and one of them was against us in our own stadium. That is poverty plain and simple.

At the end of the day where we are with Bryce Young is he is having Kyle Allen level peaks in between very underwhelming perfomances. And at the end of the day Kyle Allen only got 13 games. Thirteen. And he was undrafted. Bryce Young is 42 games in and he is a #1 pick. Nobody is being unfair to him folks.

But there's no need to continue to eviscerate one another through the bye week. We will have the answers we seek in New Orleans. Because frankly my expectations are high. We should not play down to the level of our competition against them. Honestly I expect Bryce and company to blow them out. If we are serious about winning the division and making the playoffs for the first time in many years that is what it is going to take.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

Sorry this is 4 yards instead of 3, but I think that's still the "same thing" in this instance... you wouldn't call this pass a dot, dart, or anything else like that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_no5YnIrAb4

No, I would call it a bullet or zip pass but I would not argue against it being either. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

9 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

You've lost all credibility with me on that my friend. Never in the history of football has a 3 yard pass ever been called a dot, dart or anything other than a 3 yard pass. I'm not even going to discuss it further with you if your going to twist yourself in knots like this. 

I've seen a few. Laser throw into triple coverage that misses the defender's hands by a hair and you ask yourself how did the receiver even see it much less catch it. Those are darts. Perfect placed pass on an insanely critical play for a first down or TD. There can be short yardage darts, but they've got a higher criteria to meet, IMO. 

[tukafan21]

5 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

No, I would call it a bullet or zip pass but I would not argue against it being either. 

That's still semantics then as to what you'd call this specific pass.

My point was THIS is the type of pass that deserves superlatives to be used to describe it, whatever you want to call said superlative is sure, personal opinion.

But that's my generic stance in this thread, the pass needs to be special to be called "slinging dots downfield" or whatever else you want to call it.  Those two TD passes were certainly good passes, I'm not trying to say they were bad.  But in reality, they were pretty standard throws for an NFL QB to be able to make (and honestly, pretty standard for most college QB's as well), hence why I can't agree with calling it dot, dart, dime, or whatever else you want to use.

Edited 31 minutes ago by tukafan21