Go after Shedeur this offseason.

[Gipetto]

This teams fans have gone acoustic 

[Proudiddy]

2 hours ago, Gipetto said:

This teams fans have gone acoustic 

I’ll be your huckleberry.

[Proudiddy]

9 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, I keep trying to get this point across but it's wild how there doesn't exist any statistic on this planet that shows Bryce to be better than Kyler nor apparently any reasonable measure at all other than, "Cause I said so."

Well, I guess if that's the way you want to make an argument, I can just never be wrong at all. Sounds pretty familiar in this modern society we have here.....

10 years ago, the reactions to this thread would have at the least made me question myself and what I’m seeing in my evaluation versus what I’m feeling.  But not now.  I know where this mentality comes from and we’re seeing it unfold in real-time, everyday in society.  Call someone else dumb while any and all statistics supports their argument, but if you just keep doubling down, you can make people forget about facts.

It’s also why my replies to this despite 16 pages have been pretty sparse outside of one, and that post was mostly ignored because it called the BS out for what it is.  
 

I don’t take it personal, because I know for them, it is VERY personal.  Not a person alive on this planet is going to tell me, nor convince me, that any other starter in the NFL isn’t more physically talented than Bryce.  We have all read and seen the stats - 32nd out of 32 starters since being drafted.  We have watched the games.  Countless games where Bryce struggles to hit 100 yards until the 4th.  Countless times he fumbles untouched, trips over his own feet, under throws or throws behind, or just throws straight to a defender who has been lurking in the same spot from the snap.  But, there is this mysterious ancient metric that us simpletons have not gained access to, that makes him better than the stats and eye test combined.

Kyler Murray is wildly physically gifted, but especially for his size.  He has a laser arm, and he’s a quick, twitchy athlete.  Baseball background, multi-sport star.  And he’s statistically better than Bryce.  In my observations and estimation, his only downside is I don’t think he has ever applied himself and he doesn’t prepare as he should.  He relies on his talent alone, and I think that also carries over to questions about leadership.  But, all of that considered, these guys don’t want him over Bryce.  So again, I ask why?  The same logic is applied to Shedeur.  Hell, I would apply the same logic to Brissett.  Jameis.  Any fuging body with physical talent to throw a football.  If you have the worst starter in the league, proven over almost three full years, what do you owe him?  Hint: It’s not another year.  One can deduce from that point that you could easily find a replacement that will give you better production, even from someone who isn’t a current starter.  
 

I knew society had gotten dumber, but damn…  “don’t tell me what’s better!  I want to keep fuging myself and nobody can stop me!”

[TD alt]

42 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

10 years ago, the reactions to this thread would have at the least made me question myself and what I’m seeing in my evaluation versus what I’m feeling.  But not now.  I know where this mentality comes from and we’re seeing it unfold in real-time, everyday in society.  Call someone else dumb while any and all statistics supports their argument, but if you just keep doubling down, you can make people forget about facts.

It’s also why my replies to this despite 16 pages have been pretty sparse outside of one, and that post was mostly ignored because it called the BS out for what it is.  
 

I don’t take it personal, because I know for them, it is VERY personal.  Not a person alive on this planet is going to tell me, nor convince me, that any other starter in the NFL isn’t more physically talented than Bryce.  We have all read and seen the stats - 32nd out of 32 starters since being drafted.  We have watched the games.  Countless games where Bryce struggles to hit 100 yards until the 4th.  Countless times he fumbles untouched, trips over his own feet, under throws or throws behind, or just throws straight to a defender who has been lurking in the same spot from the snap.  But, there is this mysterious ancient metric that us simpletons have not gained access to, that makes him better than the stats and eye test combined.

Kyler Murray is wildly physically gifted, but especially for his size.  He has a laser arm, and he’s a quick, twitchy athlete.  Baseball background, multi-sport star.  And he’s statistically better than Bryce.  In my observations and estimation, his only downside is I don’t think he has ever applied himself and he doesn’t prepare as he should.  He relies on his talent alone, and I think that also carries over to questions about leadership.  But, all of that considered, these guys don’t want him over Bryce.  So again, I ask why?  The same logic is applied to Shedeur.  Hell, I would apply the same logic to Brissett.  Jameis.  Any fuging body with physical talent to throw a football.  If you have the worst starter in the league, proven over almost three full years, what do you owe him?  Hint: It’s not another year.  One can deduce from that point that you could easily find a replacement that will give you better production, even from someone who isn’t a current starter.  
 

I knew society had gotten dumber, but damn…  “don’t tell me what’s better!  I want to keep fuging myself and nobody can stop me!”

I mean, you probably should've waited after the season is over before "going there," that way we we'd have four more games of comparison and discussion. Don't get me wrong, I occasionally go out on a limb, but Bryce just had his best game and has given people hope (which could realistically be false hope), and Shedeur just doesn't have that many games under his belt (even if he does look promising), one of them being against the Titans. No harm in being patient and letting things play out. 

If you noticed, Tepper seems to be taking a wait-and-see attitude, and he didn't mention Bryce in the clip in the other thread. I'm still highly skeptical of Bryce (and glad that Sanders has shown an ounce of success), but the reality is that we have to let things play out. The Sanders train left long ago (if it was even here). But,there are more realistic options if Bryce turns back into a frog.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I mean, you probably should've waited after the season is over before "going there," that way we we'd have four more games of comparison and discussion. Don't get me wrong, I occasionally go out on a limb, but Bryce just had his best game and has given people hope (which could realistically be false hope), and Shedeur just doesn't have that many games under his belt (even if he does look promising), one of them being against the Titans. No harm in being patient and letting things play out. 

If you noticed, Tepper seems to be taking a wait-and-see attitude, and he didn't mention Bryce in the clip in the other thread. I'm still highly skeptical of Bryce (and glad that Sanders has shown an ounce of success), but the reality is that we have to let things play out. The Sanders train left long ago (if it was even here). But,there are more realistic options if Bryce turns back into a frog.

I mean, did Bryce ever become a prince for more than a game or two at a time? 

 

I am not advocating in any way, shape or form for Sanders as a starter. If he was available for nickels and could compete in camp, I would be fine having him. I don't view him as any sort of savior and he is another guy that has some legit physical limitations and a TON of work to do getting faster and more decisive with his reads.

I can't say given sample size he is better than Bryce....yet. But that ain't much in the way of bars to clear.

Hence why I am so perplexed by the Kyler arguments here. I mean.....who in the world would even question the fact that he is a better QB than Bryce? And, once again, that doesn't make him good. It makes him better than one of the worst starting QB's in the past 5 or so years.

[CRA]

18 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I mean, you probably should've waited after the season is over before "going there," that way we we'd have four more games of comparison and discussion. Don't get me wrong, I occasionally go out on a limb, but Bryce just had his best game and has given people hope (which could realistically be false hope), and Shedeur just doesn't have that many games under his belt (even if he does look promising), one of them being against the Titans. No harm in being patient and letting things play out. 

If you noticed, Tepper seems to be taking a wait-and-see attitude, and he didn't mention Bryce in the clip in the other thread. I'm still highly skeptical of Bryce (and glad that Sanders has shown an ounce of success), but the reality is that we have to let things play out. The Sanders train left long ago (if it was even here). But,there are more realistic options if Bryce turns back into a frog.

Just had his best game? The Panthers did have their best win in terms of quality of opponent.  Reality is, Bryce Young was treated like a backup QB for almost the entire game vs the Rams.   It's yet another example of a long run of oddities come to life for Bryce on  the year.  Almost this weird The Golden Calf of Bristol season weirdness where it clearly is not good QB play but randomness resulting in a random season overall. 

Canales frankly called 2 really dumb calls on 4th down and it worked out terrifically.  I mean, credit Bryce for making the plays, sure.   But I don't think 2 wild gambles really erase everything else.  I mean, take out the 4th down oddities and he was at 130 yards on the day (with a lot of YAC). 

[Proudiddy]

18 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I mean, you probably should've waited after the season is over before "going there," that way we we'd have four more games of comparison and discussion. Don't get me wrong, I occasionally go out on a limb, but Bryce just had his best game and has given people hope (which could realistically be false hope), and Shedeur just doesn't have that many games under his belt (even if he does look promising), one of them being against the Titans. No harm in being patient and letting things play out. 

If you noticed, Tepper seems to be taking a wait-and-see attitude, and he didn't mention Bryce in the clip in the other thread. I'm still highly skeptical of Bryce (and glad that Sanders has shown an ounce of success), but the reality is that we have to let things play out. The Sanders train left long ago (if it was even here). But,there are more realistic options if Bryce turns back into a frog.

I have no problem waiting to see on Shedeur.  My problem is the blowback at any suggestion of anyone other than Bryce when he and his stans have had us waiting for almost 3 full years for some semblance of average QB play.  Bryce deserves nothing.  He has earned nothing with his play.  Far better QBs and players in the history of the NFL have lost their opportunity over far, far less.  All this coddling and protecting is ridiculous.  
 

I don’t know if Shedeur will be great.  I am confident he will be, at minimum, solid for the entirety of his career, and being a rookie, I believe he could be much more based off what he is showing.  But, at the end of the day, if Shedeur ends up washing out?  Cool.  Doesn’t hurt my feelings.  I’m basing my opinion off of what I see and what the stats say.  Does he have some flaws?  Sure.  But (almost) every QB does.  What he is doing as a rookie is damn impressive.  In a handful of games as a rookie, he has made plays that we didn’t see from Bryce for almost two full seasons.  I look at his deep throws the last few weeks, and I even heard someone recently comment on it with my same exact thoughts - he is throwing guys open.  And on the deep throws, he is letting them catch it in stride.  Then I look at stuff like changing of the arm angle, adjusting velocity and angle, etc., The last TD he threw that was contested, he was under immediate pressure and he changed his arm slot and layered the ball into the receiver to give him a chance to make a play.  And then he’s hit guys in stride 50 yards downfield.  The receivers didn’t have to wait for it, didn’t have to slow up, the throw didn’t allow the defender back in the play, it didn’t carry the receiver off his line.  We didn’t see these things from Bryce until, imo, the games this year, in year three.  That run last season, he was not making the throws he’s making this season in his good games.  The deep throws against the Rams, imo, were his best placed throws of his career on deep balls.  And that’s not immediacy bias, i also feel that way because these games count, unlike the end of season stretch last year.  So again, it’s taken him three years to make throws that guys like Dart, Shedeur, and Shough are making as rookies.  And yet, a huge faction of our fanbase believe Bryce should be held in some sort of reverence for being the worst starting QB in the league over the last three seasons.  It’s insane. 
 

and again, to be clear, I want Bryce to figure it out finally, if it’s possible for him to do so.  Put together a storybook run and let’s win the whole thing… but, due to your resume, we’re still gonna bring in competition next season.  Period.

[Car123]

1 hour ago, Proudiddy said:

10 years ago, the reactions to this thread would have at the least made me question myself and what I’m seeing in my evaluation versus what I’m feeling.  But not now.  I know where this mentality comes from and we’re seeing it unfold in real-time, everyday in society.  Call someone else dumb while any and all statistics supports their argument, but if you just keep doubling down, you can make people forget about facts.

It’s also why my replies to this despite 16 pages have been pretty sparse outside of one, and that post was mostly ignored because it called the BS out for what it is.  
 

I don’t take it personal, because I know for them, it is VERY personal.  Not a person alive on this planet is going to tell me, nor convince me, that any other starter in the NFL isn’t more physically talented than Bryce.  We have all read and seen the stats - 32nd out of 32 starters since being drafted.  We have watched the games.  Countless games where Bryce struggles to hit 100 yards until the 4th.  Countless times he fumbles untouched, trips over his own feet, under throws or throws behind, or just throws straight to a defender who has been lurking in the same spot from the snap.  But, there is this mysterious ancient metric that us simpletons have not gained access to, that makes him better than the stats and eye test combined.

Kyler Murray is wildly physically gifted, but especially for his size.  He has a laser arm, and he’s a quick, twitchy athlete.  Baseball background, multi-sport star.  And he’s statistically better than Bryce.  In my observations and estimation, his only downside is I don’t think he has ever applied himself and he doesn’t prepare as he should.  He relies on his talent alone, and I think that also carries over to questions about leadership.  But, all of that considered, these guys don’t want him over Bryce.  So again, I ask why?  The same logic is applied to Shedeur.  Hell, I would apply the same logic to Brissett.  Jameis.  Any fuging body with physical talent to throw a football.  If you have the worst starter in the league, proven over almost three full years, what do you owe him?  Hint: It’s not another year.  One can deduce from that point that you could easily find a replacement that will give you better production, even from someone who isn’t a current starter.  
 

I knew society had gotten dumber, but damn…  “don’t tell me what’s better!  I want to keep fuging myself and nobody can stop me!”

This is why people don’t take Bryce haters seriously. Bryce young is not the worst starter in the league.

[LinvilleGorge]

I'm pretty sure Shedeur is gonna be a flash in the pan but I'm also pretty sure that if he continues to play decently that he's not gonna be avaliable anyway. And if he is made available yeah, it could be the Browns doing Browns things again but it would be a pretty big red flag. Organizations just don't part with QBs who have shown much of anything after only a rookie season. You're talking about a potential valuable asset on a bottom of the barrel contract. The only way they'd consider moving hin if he continues to show much is if they think they're absolutely fleecing the other team.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Car123 said:

This is why people don’t take Bryce haters seriously. Bryce young is not the worst starter in the league.

He's pretty close to the bottom of actual starters. Not backups playing due to injury but guys tabbed as teams as "this is our starting QB". There's not many of those guys you can make a compelling argument that Bryce is demonstrably better than that guy. 

[Car123]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He's pretty close to the bottom of actual starters. Not backups playing due to injury but guys tabbed as teams as "this is our starting QB". There's not many of those guys you can make a compelling argument that Bryce is demonstrably better than that guy. 

He’s in the 18-23 range with a chance to move higher depending on how he finishes the season.

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Car123 said:

This is why people don’t take Bryce haters seriously. Bryce young is not the worst starter in the league.

Bryce Young haters aren't actually haters.  We are just those who acknowledge reality over 3 seasons.  

and so much of the board is word games and selective reading before responding.  Bryce Young is not literally the worst starting QB today.  You got rookies, backups, 87 year olds and all sorts of types that enter into any particular season.  Bryce Young is the worst starting QB over the last 3 years.  Those stats and facts have been shared and are what they are. 

Other QBs that are as bad as Bryce, don't remain on the field and become one year blips or 2 years at most.   Heck, that applies to QBs that have been better than Bryce.  That's why he holds that worst starter over the last 3 years/since drafted designation. 

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

Bryce Young haters aren't actually haters.  We are just those who acknowledge reality over 3 seasons.  

and so much of the board is word games and selective reading before responding.  Bryce Young is not literally the worst starting QB today.  Bryce Young is the worst starting QB over the last 3 years.  Those stats and facts have been shared and are what they are. 

Other QBs that are as bad as Bryce, don't remain on the field and become one year blips or 2 years at most.   Heck, that applies to QBs that have been better than Bryce.  That's why he holds that worst over the last 3 years/since drafted designation. 

If draft position had been ignored, Bryce would have been out of the league after his first year. His on field product was terrible, regardless of who his supporting cast was. The things he could control were painful to watch. 

When it starts that bad, any improvement looks good. But the bar is sitting on the ground so low you cant trip over it. The things that he does badly, his footwork, mechanics, drop backs, squaring up to the pocket to throw, etc, have gotten minimally better. 

Bad Bryce falls back to those heavily. If you ignore all the stats and just watch him play the position, it's not pretty. Frankly, it's still painful to watch. I don't like or dislike Bryce the person so I don't hate him. I just watch how he plays and it's not a good way to play for a franchise QB. 

Edited 1 hour ago by SmokinwithWilly

[Car123]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

Bryce Young haters aren't actually haters.  We are just those who acknowledge reality over 3 seasons.  

and so much of the board is word games and selective reading before responding.  Bryce Young is not literally the worst starting QB today.  You got rookies, backups, 87 year olds and all sorts of types that enter into any particular season.  Bryce Young is the worst starting QB over the last 3 years.  Those stats and facts have been shared and are what they are. 

Other QBs that are as bad as Bryce, don't remain on the field and become one year blips or 2 years at most.   Heck, that applies to QBs that have been better than Bryce.  That's why he holds that worst starter over the last 3 years/since drafted designation. 

 

So you’re saying Shough, the kid in Minnesota, Geno, Tua, Purdy, Stroud, Trevor Lawerence, Tyrod, Sanders, Cam Ward, are better than Bryce Young this season?