Go after Shedeur this offseason.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Car123 said:

The players I mentioned.

Okay so I took a look at this across a WIDE variety of overall metrics and statistical groups that should give an idea about overall play and some potential aggravating factors associated with their play. 

Overall, I would say this indicates by the categories that I have detailed out that Tua and Geno are clearly the guys that are having worse seasons than Bryce. I would add that I am still of the opinion that they are better overall QB's given both capability and past performances. I will definitely concede there is not a solid statistical argument for them having a better year than Bryce, to date. 

Here is the data I gathered and I have shaded the cells according to "better than" or "worse than" Bryce. In a couple of the categories, this is an inverse because I am indicating these were less aggravating situations than Bryce has had and therefore less excusable reasoning for sucking. 

Let me know if there are any questions on the data/categories/etc.

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Has Bryce?

Again though, prior career results don't mean much when we're talking about right now. 

This season, Bryce can legitimately be called a clutch performer, a leader, a smooth operator, etc.

Don't know that anyone would apply those descriptions to Murray at the moment...or even before for that matter.

I'm not counting on Bryce to continue this run, but I can't really blame anyone else much if they do. 

That's why I pointed it out because Bryce hasn't either, so it's not like that could be used an excuse for the poor winning percentage.

And yes, right now, Kyler is the better QB.

I would show it to you in the same "statistical" way that I did for Car123 but you have basically admitted that Kyler will obviously be statistically better(which is very true) and somehow that isn't relevant.

Regardless, whether eye or statistical, you have made literally no reasonable counter argument other than "there is another guy in this forum that said he saw Arizona games and he said Kyler wasn't as good" and that "he got benched." 

That's really been the bulk of your argument so far. 

As for a "clutch performer", leader and whatever in the world a "smooth operator" is.....I guess that's the PFF version of your rankings. 

[Mr. Scot]

39 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

You must be watching different football than I am because when Im watching Bryce at QB, literally none of those things come to my mind. 

Different? No.

More recent, and thus more relevant? Yes.

37 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Which is why you can't ignore the 1st 2 seasons because the Saints and 9ers looked exactly like Bryce in the 1st 2 seasons. 

Yeah...that doesn't actually make any sense

If you'd have gone by Jake Delhomme's career stats and percentagea in 2003, it's likely you wouldn't even have signed him, much less started him. And you sure as hell couldn't have predicted how that season was going to turn out.

You don't pass on a guy who's playing well at this moment because he was bad two years ago. No more than you throw big free agent money at a guy on the downside of his career because he used to be good.

(heaven knows we've made that mistake before)

The only thing that has any meaning at all is how good they are right now. Bad prior seasons have no bearing whatsoever.

Edited December 10, 2025 by Mr. Scot

[SmokinwithWilly]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Different? No.

More recent, and thus more relevant? Yes.

Yeah...that doesn't actually make any sense

If you'd have gone by Jake Delhomme's career stats and percentagea in 2003, it's likely you wouldn't even have signed him, much less started him. And you sure as hell couldn't have predicted how that season was going to turn out.

You don't pass on a guy who's playing well at this moment because he was bad two years ago. No more than you throw big free agent money at a guy on the downside of his career because he used to be good.

(heaven knows we've made that mistake before)

The only thing that has any meaning at all is how good they are right now. Bad prior seasons have no bearing whatsoever.

Well I'm watching every game this season so it's the same football, same time frame. I see things differently than you do. I can't tell what your actual opinion is because lately it's been coming from Joe Person and others. 

For someone who doesnt believe in stats you sure as poo seem to be hung up on them. And let's not forget, Jake was a practice squad QB, not the number 1 overall draft pick. They aren't even comparable in expectations of past performance or expected level of QB play. 

I didn't even mention stats for the 1st 2 years with Bryce. That would be you. What he looked like from the 1st 2 years was that same QB with the same god awful mechanics making throws squared up to the line, not driving his passes, bailing out of the pocket too early, sloppy footwork on drop backs, hopping to get his pass over the line because he's not tall enough to actually throw over a defensive player. When things aren't perfect, he looks like that same awful rookie player. That's why I said you can't ignore past performance. You go back and look to see if he's still doing those things or if he's developing. 

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

You don't pass on a guy who's playing well at this moment because he was bad two years ago. 

 

of the last 6 games, how many would you say featured good NFL QB play? 

Jets, Green Bay, New Orleans, Falcons, 49ers, Rams. 

How is he playing well, if he was not good in 4 of the last 6? 

It's the recurring trend of letting the last game when it goes okay have drastically too much weight. 

[frankw]

3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Would you rather compliment Sean Payton?

There was a brief time where many in the fanbase considered if we should seek his services after the dumpster fire that was the Matt Rhule experience had us completely downbad. Such is the result of living with the Tepper's as owners.

[Mr. Scot]

U

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That's why I pointed it out because Bryce hasn't either, so it's not like that could be used an excuse for the poor winning percentage.

And yes, right now, Kyler is the better QB.

I would show it to you in the same "statistical" way that I did for Car123 but you have basically admitted that Kyler will obviously be statistically better(which is very true) and somehow that isn't relevant.

Regardless, whether eye or statistical, you have made literally no reasonable counter argument other than "there is another guy in this forum that said he saw Arizona games and he said Kyler wasn't as good" and that "he got benched." 

That's really been the bulk of your argument so far. 

As for a "clutch performer", leader and whatever in the world a "smooth operator" is.....I guess that's the PFF version of your rankings. 

Has a whole thread about why I don't go by stats but apparently it was deleted. Don't know why.

As to the "other guy" he only said he's watched all the games and you didn't believe him. You now state that you "took a look at this across a WIDE variety of overall metrics and statistical groups that should give an idea about overall play and some potential aggravating factors associated with their play".

That's a lot broader claim than he made. Should i believe you?

That might sound snarky, but that's pretty much how you dismissed his argument, so hey...

And yes, I've made counter arguments. You don't accept them as valid. I don't accept your stat based argument either, but I've made an effort to explain why beyond just saying "well you're wrong because...stats".

Bottom Line: You still believe Murray will be valued and starting somewhere next year. I have my doubts, but even if he does get another shot that doesn't guarantee he's gonna be any better. I'm comfortable waiting and seeing.

Will he be better than Bryce? Don't think so, but admittedly unless he's a Panther, won't really care either.

I definitely care about Bryce, but I'm not a whole lot more optimistic on that front than I am about Murray. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, frankw said:

There was a brief time where many in the fanbase considered if we should seek his services after the dumpster fire that was the Matt Rhule experience had us completely downbad. Such is the result of living with the Tepper's as owners.

Dark times mess with your head.

[frankw]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Had a whole thread about why I don't go by stats but apparently it was deleted. Don't know why.

At this point more threads are just creating more spats. We've got 4 more days until we get answers. Just wait it out and then resume.

[Car123]

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Okay so I took a look at this across a WIDE variety of overall metrics and statistical groups that should give an idea about overall play and some potential aggravating factors associated with their play. 

Overall, I would say this indicates by the categories that I have detailed out that Tua and Geno are clearly the guys that are having worse seasons than Bryce. I would add that I am still of the opinion that they are better overall QB's given both capability and past performances. I will definitely concede there is not a solid statistical argument for them having a better year than Bryce, to date. 

Here is the data I gathered and I have shaded the cells according to "better than" or "worse than" Bryce. In a couple of the categories, this is an inverse because I am indicating these were less aggravating situations than Bryce has had and therefore less excusable reasoning for sucking. 

Let me know if there are any questions on the data/categories/etc.

Trevor Lawerence is not having a better year. Also, you got the wrong color for Lawerence’s int%. You also marked green for total TO/PG when it was tied.

[Car123]

7 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

If Brees third year wasn't fantastic, I don't really know what your measurement for fantastic is but it's very likely Bryce will never achieve that in his career.

What’s fantastic about 57.6 comp pct, 11 td, 15 ints, 67.5 passer rating?

[Car123]

7 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

And you just brought up what Bryce haters do, while ignoring his apologists love to throw three entire years out like it doesn’t count.

When two and a half entire seasons you’ve thoroughly proven you are the 32nd of 32 starting QBs, a couple good games are the exception, not the rule.  Even for this year, he’s had a couple good games and a whole lot of stinkers, which follows the rule he has set over his entire tenure.

This does not make sense because some worse qbs are no longer in the NFL and there are new starting qbs that are not as good as Bryce. How is he 32/32 when Cam Ward and Mccarthy are clearly worse?

Edited December 11, 2025 by Car123

[Car123]

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Maybe so, but stats don't...oh wait

I’ve never said stats don’t matter.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Car123 said:

This does not make sense because some worse qbs are no longer in the NFL and there are new starting qbs that are not as good as Bryce. How is he 32/32 when Cam Ward and Mccarthy are clearly worse?

Because guys slightly worse than Bryce or slightly better…..don’t get to be starter vs 3 straight seasons.    They all come and go. Thats how he is the worst starting QB since he was drafted.  Players worse or close to him….go away and he remains.   

so is he better than JJ? Sure.  But JJ will go away.   Just like a Spencer Rattler.  So they don’t get to compete for the worst over a window of time….where they only exist for a season. 

so you could say Cam Ward is the worst QB in 2025

Bryce remains the worst from 2023 to date.  Anyone as bad is gone. 

and Ward’s draft status likely won’t give him Bryce’s time.  Bryce get extra for being way more than a #1 overall blunder.  He was multiple.