Trinidad Chambliss

[kungfoodude]

13 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I am not at all up for under 6' myself. That list is small and unimpressive, I really can't think of anyone but Wilson in that category recently I would call good that I can think of. Murray could have made it work but he is incredibly dense IMO. That's just bad odds. Over 6'? Shouldn't be an issue by itself. 

100% on the second part. That's what matters first and would dictate an exception. 

 

It's a small group to begin with(pun intended).

I don't care about the height(to a point). I want to see if you are an elite QB or have elite QB tools. The one thing I will say is that I am definitely done with below average to significantly below average arm strength. Bryce cured me of that.

Honestly, similarly with QB's with poor footwork. Those should be Day 3 guys.

[Waldo]

19 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It's a small group to begin with(pun intended).

I don't care about the height(to a point). I want to see if you are an elite QB or have elite QB tools. The one thing I will say is that I am definitely done with below average to significantly below average arm strength. Bryce cured me of that.

Honestly, similarly with QB's with poor footwork. Those should be Day 3 guys.

I agree but the 1 and a half guys that have fit is a small hit percentage.

I agree the other stuff matters more. If Murray wasn't a dud between the ears it would be 2 and not 1 in that category. It's deffinatly not as high as ability, tools and skills. 

Yeah really weak arm is a huge red flag. Paired with poor footwork should be a hell no.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Waldo said:

I agree but the 1 and a half guys that have fit is a small hit percentage.

I agree the other stuff matters more. If Murray wasn't a dud between the ears it would be 2 and not 1 in that category. It's deffinatly not as high as ability, tools and skills. 

Yeah really weak arm is a huge red flag. Paired with poor footwork should be a hell no.

But they exist in that space precisely because they were the outliers with big arms and other elite traits(especially athletically). I would never look past a sub 6 foot QB with a similar profile to those guys. That's basically what I mean. My list of prospects is never going to auto delete based on stature. It's definitely a reason to take a more in depth look to make sure they are going to translate.

Bryce fooled me with his playmaking ability. I thought it was going to translate well, ignored all his throwing mechanics issues and gave more credit to his abilities than the superstar team around him. I am not going to do that again.

[Martin]

This was the first time I’ve seen him play. Very impressive guy. Does he play well within structure as well? You can’t live on out of structure play in the NFL.

[Waldo]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

But they exist in that space precisely because they were the outliers with big arms and other elite traits(especially athletically). I would never look past a sub 6 foot QB with a similar profile to those guys. That's basically what I mean. My list of prospects is never going to auto delete based on stature. It's definitely a reason to take a more in depth look to make sure they are going to translate.

Bryce fooled me with his playmaking ability. I thought it was going to translate well, ignored all his throwing mechanics issues and gave more credit to his abilities than the superstar team around him. I am not going to do that again.

That's why I said I agree the other stuff matter more. If that doesn't exist it's not even worth looking at height. 

It does limit play tho. Deal killer? Not with good physical traits and skills. 

I never got Bryce's playmaker ability from school film. It always looked school level at best to me. I don't watch more school ball so I only care about NFL level and he just didn't look more than a gut eho peaked in school. That sounds like a sound take moving forward.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Waldo said:

That's why I said I agree the other stuff matter more. If that doesn't exist it's not even worth looking at height. 

It does limit play tho. Deal killer? Not with good physical traits and skills. 

I never got Bryce's playmaker ability from school film. It always looked school level at best to me. I don't watch more school ball so I only care about NFL level and he just didn't look more than a gut eho peaked in school. That sounds like a sound take moving forward.

There is an advantage to a player having the ability to extend plays with their feet to allow guys to get open. Bryce had that in droves and to an extent he still does. I think the biggest knock is that he doesn't have great ability to threaten with his feet, however. McNabb could do that, Wilson could do that, Lamar is insanely dangerous, Murray can do that, etc, etc.

But, there is also a fine line between extending plays to throw downfield and getting yourself in an even more difficult spot. Bryce tends to do the latter too frequently. The lack of serious scrambling ability(he isn't inept here, it's just a lower tier ability) hamstrings his scrambling around to get guys open. They don't have to worry about him gashing them for big yardage because he isn't an elite athlete. He is average, at best.

[jb2288]

18 minutes ago, Martin said:

This was the first time I’ve seen him play. Very impressive guy. Does he play well within structure as well? You can’t live on out of structure play in the NFL.

Hard to tell in that offense. It’s a one read and go scheme, you aren’t making progressions. Same offense that gave us Corral (and Dart)

[Bear Hands]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

The height poo is dramatically overplayed. Just get someone with elite arm talent and other elite skillsets. There are plenty of elite 6 foot or under NFL QB's historically.

I mean this board is simping left, right and center for backup NFL players like Willis and Howell and both of them are barely 6 feet.

Just get players with elite NFL QB traits and abilities.

I'd say the height issue is a problem here, but overplayed in the greater context. 

If a guy is 6'0 but a stud, then why not, but absolutely stay away from anything once you get into the 5' range.  That's where you get into legitimate physical limitation territory.  One thing guys like BY/Kyler/Russ run into- you want a guy that's able to fully survey the field at all levels in the pocket, and they can't, have to modify the traditional style to do so. They can make runs/have good teams really help prop them, but when it comes time to put the team on their back in the pocket, it's rather difficult.

[Tr3ach]

4 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

Hard to tell in that offense. It’s a one read and go scheme, you aren’t making progressions. Same offense that gave us Corral (and Dart)

This.  Its not tennessee bad, but the Ole Miss offense is a very hard one to correlate to nfl.

[Waldo]

13 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

There is an advantage to a player having the ability to extend plays with their feet to allow guys to get open. Bryce had that in droves and to an extent he still does. I think the biggest knock is that he doesn't have great ability to threaten with his feet, however. McNabb could do that, Wilson could do that, Lamar is insanely dangerous, Murray can do that, etc, etc.

But, there is also a fine line between extending plays to throw downfield and getting yourself in an even more difficult spot. Bryce tends to do the latter too frequently. The lack of serious scrambling ability(he isn't inept here, it's just a lower tier ability) hamstrings his scrambling around to get guys open. They don't have to worry about him gashing them for big yardage because he isn't an elite athlete. He is average, at best.

His legs looked limited in school to me. Good enough at that level but it never looked NFL level. All the guys you mentioned made Bryce look slow and limited. What propped him up was other non-NFL level guys on the field. 

Absolutely on the 2nd part. That's becaude when he bails he doesn't have to ability to make it work more often. Lots of times this year and past teams let him scramble because they obviously didn't see it as a serious threat. Hell Payton was allowed to run because he was so slow and took off so infrequently. Bryce isn't that bad but he is closer to that than to Murray. 

Edited January 2 by Waldo

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

I'd say the height issue is a problem here, but overplayed in the greater context. 

If a guy is 6'0 but a stud, then why not, but absolutely stay away from anything once you get into the 5' range.  That's where you get into legitimate physical limitation territory.  One thing guys like BY/Kyler/Russ run into- you want a guy that's able to fully survey the field at all levels in the pocket, and they can't, have to modify the traditional style to do so. They can make runs/have good teams really help prop them, but when it comes time to put the team on their back in the pocket, it's rather difficult.

I mean, Brees was a sub 6' guy too(although they listed him as 6 foot). It is not a worry if you are an elite player. Even Flutie Flakes was able to succeed at the NFL level at his height.

All QB's still need throwing lanes and different QB's play the game in a way that maximizes their abilities so they can be successful.

All these sub-6 QB's we are talking about have had more NFL success that easily 80+% of 6-3 or better NFL QB's.

That's why I keep beating this horse. It isn't about measurables, it's about abilities. That extends well beyond the QB position.

Xavier Legette has elite abilities and measurables. Yet a slight little midget with no where near the athleticism is an infinitely better WR(McConkey). Jonathan Mingo is way more athletic than Puka Nacua. How is that working out?

Never hyperfocus on measurables. It's a small part of a much bigger picture. 

 

[Bear Hands]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I mean, Brees was a sub 6' guy too(although they listed him as 6 foot). It is not a worry if you are an elite player. Even Flutie Flakes was able to succeed at the NFL level at his height.

All QB's still need throwing lanes and different QB's play the game in a way that maximizes their abilities so they can be successful.

All these sub-6 QB's we are talking about have had more NFL success that easily 80+% of 6-3 or better NFL QB's.

That's why I keep beating this horse. It isn't about measurables, it's about abilities. That extends well beyond the QB position.

Xavier Legette has elite abilities and measurables. Yet a slight little midget with no where near the athleticism is an infinitely better WR(McConkey). Jonathan Mingo is way more athletic than Puka Nacua. How is that working out?

Never hyperfocus on measurables. It's a small part of a much bigger picture. 

 

I wouldn't call it a hyperfocus, they factor into eval.  All part of a bigger picture.

 

[TylerDurden]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I will say, Chambliss was out there looking like dimestore Donovan McNabb. I don't think his arm talent is in the McNabb/Wilson territory is the only hiccup. He did remind me a bit of those guys, scrambling around back there.

Yeah, I will also say, one play in particular really impressed me when he ran probably 20+ yards back, and I think he reversed field twice, but when he started running back towards the LOS he changed his stride to keep his shoulders squared to the LOS and still was running fast enough to outrun the rushers.  It wasn’t even that he outran them that impressed me, it was the wherewithal and body control to change your gait mid-play, even at the expense of a full sprint, so that you were prepared to throw the ball when the opportunity came.  
 

And I’ll have to see more of him to compare like throwing distance-type arm strength, but velocity he passed with flying colors.  He was zipping some absolute lasers out there, and I think, after what we’ve seen the last three years with Bryce, to me, that is much more important than being able to throw 70 yards downfield (although I love if they can do that as well lol).

[AggieLean]

Trinidad is a winner. 2 D-2 championships before going to Ole Miss. One of the things that I really like about him, outside of his good QB play