Bucky Brooks eats humble pie. You want a couple of slices?

[WarPanthers89]

46 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You should absolutely trade any home grown, pro bowl talent for 2 firsts and a second.

Everything after that disastrous mistake was inevitability.

Also extremely glad not to be paying Brian Burns. He would not be producing in this defense and we would all be furious about it.

I meant for what we did. We got almost no return for those draft picks and I disagree with you. He’s the 10th highest paid edge rusher in the league right now and was #2 in sacks. We paid his salary with players who have had almost no impact (see Tershawn Wharton and Patrick Jones). Burns is 27 and yeah….we absolutely could have used a player who got 16.5 sacks. At this point I’d take any player who could sniff double digit sacks 

[kungfoodude]

Just now, PNW_PantherMan said:

He'll always be a luxury piece, and if he's priced like a cornerstone he isn't worth it.

Pretty sure Carter led the NFL in quick pressures and had the lowest Time To Pressure in the NFL. I think he helped that Burns sack output dramatically.

[electro's horse]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think people drastically underestimate how bad Canales and Evero are at personnel management and talent evaluation.

Obviously I’m not going to defend Canales. He’d had immense resources since he got here to build one of the lowest scoring offenses in the league with some of the most unwatchable football we’ve seen since the pickles year.

evero has been in the worst situation in the league since he got here and is doing more with less than Canales.

Like yeah bryce is awful but there Canales was hired because he said he could fix him. The defense has like five Bryces on it and evero wants to get out here so bad he took a second interview WITH THE RAIDERS 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Obviously I’m not going to defend Canales. He’d had immense resources since he got here to build one of the lowest scoring offenses in the league with some of the most unwatchable football we’ve seen since the pickles year.

evero has been in the worst situation in the league since he got here and is doing more with less than Canales.

Like yeah bryce is awful but there Canales was hired because he said he could fix him. The defense has like five Bryces on it and evero wants to get out here so bad he took a second interview WITH THE RAIDERS 

There's only 32 NFL HC jobs available. It's not like you can just sit back and wait for the perfect opportunity. For the money it pays, I'll go out to Vegas and make a complete ass of myself with a poo eating grin you couldn't beat off my face with a crowbar.

 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

I meant for what we did. We got almost no return for those draft picks and I disagree with you. He’s the 10th highest paid edge rusher in the league right now and was #2 in sacks. We paid his salary with players who have had almost no impact (see Tershawn Wharton and Patrick Jones). Burns is 27 and yeah….we absolutely could have used a player who got 16.5 sacks. At this point I’d take any player who could sniff double digit sacks 

After the Rams offer was published, we were screwed permanently. It was either pay him an exorbitant price or trade him for nickels. All remaining leverage was completely gone. The return on the draft picks is a larger issue with completely incompetent front office personnel. What can you say that hasn't already been said on that front? It just is what it is.

I will again state he would likely have been very, very underperforming here. This should be obvious when you look at his pressures and sacks which were at career lows for seasons which he started more than 4 games. He isn't the only pass rusher that can immediately show dips in pass rush production when they are playing in Evero's scheme. Clowney, Wonnum, etc.

I gotta be honest, it's going to be hard to find a double digit sack guy in an Evero defense. In his 4 years in the NFL he has only ever had one player break 6.5 sacks for a season and it was Burns at 8.0. 

 

[kungfoodude]

13 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Obviously I’m not going to defend Canales. He’d had immense resources since he got here to build one of the lowest scoring offenses in the league with some of the most unwatchable football we’ve seen since the pickles year.

evero has been in the worst situation in the league since he got here and is doing more with less than Canales.

Like yeah bryce is awful but there Canales was hired because he said he could fix him. The defense has like five Bryces on it and evero wants to get out here so bad he took a second interview WITH THE RAIDERS 

Yeah but so many of the worst players on the defense are "Evero guys." That's what I mean.

[electro's horse]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but so many of the worst players on the defense are "Evero guys." That's what I mean.

Coaches say poo all the time. Evero isn’t going to come out and say “yeah Rozeboom we’re just out of options ya know?”

and who cares if they’re “his guy” when he’s playing second fiddle to 17 ppg on the other side of the field. “His guys” are all coming from the scrap heap.

or no one free agents want to play for the panthers because they’re one of the worst organizations in football. 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Coaches say poo all the time. Evero isn’t going to come out and say “yeah Rozeboom we’re just out of options ya know?”

and who cares if they’re “his guy” when he’s playing second fiddle to 17 ppg on the other side of the field. “His guys” are all coming from the scrap heap.

or no one free agents want to play for the panthers because they’re one of the worst organizations in football. 

I mean we paid Wharton and Brown a pile of money. It shows that they don't prioritize those positions and also that Evero can't evaluate talent and utilize it properly. I mean....Wharton at NT for so many snaps?? What the actual fug? The list is long of this type of poo. 

It's very Canales-esque with the forcing square pegs into round holes style. 

[WarPanthers89]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

After the Rams offer was published, we were screwed permanently. It was either pay him an exorbitant price or trade him for nickels. All remaining leverage was completely gone. The return on the draft picks is a larger issue with completely incompetent front office personnel. What can you say that hasn't already been said on that front? It just is what it is.

I will again state he would likely have been very, very underperforming here. This should be obvious when you look at his pressures and sacks which were at career lows for seasons which he started more than 4 games. He isn't the only pass rusher that can immediately show dips in pass rush production when they are playing in Evero's scheme. Clowney, Wonnum, etc.

I gotta be honest, it's going to be hard to find a double digit sack guy in an Evero defense. In his 4 years in the NFL he has only ever had one player break 6.5 sacks for a season and it was Burns at 8.0. 

 

I agree we were screwed when we didn’t take the trade but at that point we should have kept him and signed him to a long term deal. We can only pray to have someone with the production he has this past season and he’s only 27. If he played well after that, we could have traded him later if we really wanted to for more picks rather than nickels. I know the money at the time seemed like allot but he’s only #10 highest paid right now and we have spent more than that trying to get a sliver of that production on people like DJ Wonnun, Wharton, Patrick Jones etc. and are still searching for answers. It’s similar to the CMC trade, we did nothing with the picks, and people complained about what he made, yet we paid Chubba, benched him at one point, spend a 2nd round pick on another RB, and still to this day we would kill to get his production back, much less mentioning his skills as a WR. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, WarPanthers89 said:

I agree we were screwed when we didn’t take the trade but at that point we should have kept him and signed him to a long term deal. We can only pray to have someone with the production he has this past season and he’s only 27. If he played well after that, we could have traded him later if we really wanted to for more picks rather than nickels. I know the money at the time seemed like allot but he’s only #10 highest paid right now and we have spent more than that trying to get a sliver of that production on people like DJ Wonnun, Wharton, Patrick Jones etc. and are still searching for answers. It’s similar to the CMC trade, we did nothing with the picks, and people complained about what he made, yet we paid Chubba, benched him at one point, spend a 2nd round pick on another RB, and still to this day we would kill to get his production back, much less mentioning his skills as a WR. 

Yes but I am saying that money would be completely squandered because he is a net negative in rush defense and Evero literally limits pass rush effectiveness. That's not a $30 mil AAV scenario. We cannot afford to have that kind of change wrapped up in minimal impact players. If we attempt to sign someone like Hendrickson at an inflated price tag this offseason, I am gonna beat this exact same drum so this isn't all about Burns.

Now, in a different world, a different DC and a different Panthers team makeup, I wouldn't necessarily vehemently disagree with you on keeping him. But that isn't the current Panthers. 

The pick squandering I am not even gonna address. I mean, that era of Front Office...."management" so thoroughly put the bar through the floor that it almost dug the proverbial "hole to China." What can we do? They were all completely incompetent idiots that fuged us for probably a few years left still, to some extent. Nothing can change it. We just gotta accept it.

 

[frankw]

I don't know why people are getting themselves worked up about Burns anymore. For all the things we said about him we knew he was still talented. He's going to have highs and lows with the Giants just like he had here. It's best to just turn the page.

If we hadn't exhausted so many resources to both acquire Bryce Young and surround him with the most expensive OL in the league and back to back first round picks on WR including one in the top ten we could already be talking about how good our young pass rushers and linebackers look and forget about Brian Burns.

[electro's horse]

I don’t think burns would have signed long term.

he wanted a bigger market. 

[frankw]

I think Burns was already slowly inching one foot out the door with the contract negotiations and then we traded a fortune for Bryce Young Brian and the rest of the team finally got an in person look at him in camp and he was like yeah get me out of here.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

I don’t think burns would have signed long term.

he wanted a bigger market. 

We were never going to offer him that kind of change. He hasn't really produced at the level of that deal until this past season. Of the top 10 AAV pass rushers, the only player with a lower career Sack/GM average is Josh Hines-Allen.