Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

It is time to Consider the Likelihood of WR at #19


MHS831
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Certainly it's about value. But it's also going to end up being a situation of in our draft slot there is surely going to be a few really solid prospects and maybe even a great one that might slip through if teams go on a run on one or two specific positions. And if we don't go BPA in that instance especially if it's a highly touted defensive prospect and we elect to throw another dart at receiver because we gave up a haul to draft the smallest starting QB in the NFL we would deserve to be ridiculed.

well said

 

Give me a starting high rated starting safety every day of the week over a dude like KC

  • Pie 2
  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TD alt said:

I disagree. Bringing a receiver in here that's actually a legitimate, consistent playmaker, a threat to to take it to the house on any given play, including returning if he has that skill set, from one perspective is exactly what we need. Being that first rounders increase the likelihood of actually realizing what it is we're desiring then I don't have any problem with it. Half-stepping won't diversify the room, or turn Coker into more than he really is which is a good-sized possession guy.

Nobody is saying we don't need it, just that we have bigger needs elsewhere, and that type of WR is actually something that is often found in the mid rounds, you just have to scout and evaluate properly.

Here's another way of looking at why WR in the 1st shouldn't even be considered an option.

Looking only at players currently on the team, what position group would you feel strongest about 4 years from now?

I'm not sure there is a better answer there than WR, as you have to think T-Mac is our best player on the team in 4 years (Brown is the only current player I think there is even an argument to be made over T-Mac there), with Coker not far behind.

Our OL is too old to be considered, my opinions on Bryce is well known, Hubbard will be done by then and the rest of the RB is an unknown, Off-ball LB is maybe our biggest need, we only have 1 legit safety, it's certainly not TE, and our 2nd best CB right now will be 33 by then.  

Brown should still be a beast as he'll only be 31, but nobody else on the DL projects to be that good in 4 years. 

Edge rusher with Phillips, Scourton, and Princely is probably the only other possible answer than WR.

So yes, that fast/shifty type of WR is 100% a need of ours, but we have so many other bigger needs both in the immediate and future, that to me, taking a WR in the 1st for the 3rd year in a row and having hit on another WR in the same time frame, just makes zero sense both currently and looking into the future.

Edited by tukafan21
  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Yeah, nobody said it was a given, but the type of WR they are looking at in relation to where they expect to be drafted--can you find a position where we KNOW the Panthers have shown extended interest in three or more players who are expected to be drafted in round 1 at one specific position?  If you can, please post it for us to discuss.   I could not find one.

This is all about reading and anticipating what they might do--based on very limited information.  It is also to throw things out there to see who has an open mind or a closed mind.  Of course, this is speculative--it is not even what I want, to be honest.

The only other position group I could think of is ILB since Dan was there for Rodriguez and Hill Jr. pro days in Texas. It’s one of the reasons I get the feeling ILB could be the pick at 19.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Nobody is saying we don't need it, just that we have bigger needs elsewhere, and that type of WR is actually something that is often found in the mid rounds, you just have to scout and evaluate properly.

Here's another way of looking at why WR in the 1st shouldn't even be considered an option.

Looking only at players currently on the team, what position group would you feel strongest about 4 years from now?

I'm not sure there is a better answer there than WR, as you have to think T-Mac is our best player on the team in 4 years (Brown is the only current player I think there is even an argument to be made over T-Mac there), with Coker not far behind.

Our OL is too old to be considered, my opinions on Bryce is well known, Hubbard will be done by then and the rest of the RB is an unknown, Off-ball LB is maybe our biggest need, we only have 1 legit safety, it's certainly not TE, and our 2nd best CB right now will be 33 by then.  

Brown should still be a beast as he'll only be 31, but nobody else on the DL projects to be that good in 4 years. 

Edge rusher with Phillips, Scourton, and Princely is probably the only other possible answer than WR.

So yes, that fast/shifty type of WR is 100% a need of ours, but we have so many other bigger needs both in the immediate and future, that to me, taking a WR in the 1st for the 3rd year in a row and having hit on another WR in the same time frame, just makes zero sense both currently and looking into the future.

Why four years? 

The fact is is that we only have one legit WR right now. One! The rest are a hurt UDFA and a room full of JAGs. Moreover not one TE even has to be in the league in four years, and certainly not anything but "guys." If Icky can come back anything around confidently and we can keep at least a couple more, then we at least have more than just guys across the line. 

I will never agree with the suggestion that we can just get a fast shifty receiver anywhere. That's not that high of a bar. We need a play maker. 

Scouting goes all ways. If you scout well, you can find a gem or two at any position in theory. We have done it for the OL before.

 

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TD alt said:
3 hours ago, rebelrouser said:

We can add a Z WR later than the first round.  

That can be said of any position.

Ok, we can add a good Z WR later than the first round. WR is very deep this year. Other positions like DL and OT not so much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, TD alt said:

Why four years? 

The fact is is that we only have one legit WR right now. One! The rest are a hurt UDFA and a room full of JAGs. Moreover not one TE even has to be in the league in four years, and certainly not anything but "guys." If Icky can come back anything around confidently and we can keep at least a couple more, then we at least have more than just guys across the line. 

I will never agree with the suggestion that we can just get a fast shifty receiver anywhere. That's not that high of a bar. We need a play maker. 

Scouting goes all ways. If you scout well, you can find a gem or two at any position in theory. We have done it for the OL before.

 

A few reasons, first being that's the length of rookie contracts (not counting the 5th year option for 1st roudners).  Also trying to go 5+ years out feels long and 3 or less feels too short for there to be all too much of a change.

And you still seem to be arguing for this as if it's the only way to get a WR in that mold and that we don't have bigger problems than WR right now.  Just because we need one thing, doesn't mean bigger needs should be ignored to fill that one, especially when that position already has one of our best players on the team.

Again, yes, we need that type of WR, but we have other bigger and more pressing needs.

It's also wildly unfair to say we have 1 WR right now, I think Coker has shown enough to be considered a solid WR moving forward with how he finished the season.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

I was against WR in the 1st, but I can see the appeal now that Tukafan is against it.  He is a tmac fan 1st and Panther fan 2nd

You really think I don’t want us to use a late 1st round pick on a WR because of my T-Mac fandom?

Despite my numerous and detailed explanations of why I think we both need another WR but why using our 1st rounder on it is a terrible idea when you think about it beyond just this next season’s needs?

Disagree if you’d like, but have legitimate reasons, not thinking I’m afraid of the reigning OROY losing catches to the 5th best WR in this draft, just an absurd take.

Edited by tukafan21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Drafting a WR in the 1st only guarantees one of T-Mac, Coker, or the new draft pick has zero chance of still being on the roster 4 years from now because they can’t all be paid at the same time.

Which is why a WR in the 1st makes no sense, if we do that, I’d be pissed if we don’t also trade Coker this offseason, and I have zero interest in trading him, so………

We know T-Mac is that dude, so unless the team has serious concerns about Coker taking the next step, WR makes so sense to me in the 1st

The big payday assumes all three become bona fide stars.  Not likely. I also can say with confidence they are not drafting based on financial hypotheticals that might come up in four years.  They are drafting to build the best roster possible.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

The big payday assumes all three become bona fide stars.  Not likely. I also can say with confidence they are not drafting based on financial hypotheticals that might come up in four years.  They are drafting to build the best roster possible.   

And you think teams can build the best possible roster every season without thinking about financial implications into the future?

It's precisely what the good franchises do, they make decisions that combine what is best for the upcoming season as well as the long term implications.

The other problem with this post is that you say it only is an issue if they all become stars.  But that is exactly what you should be hoping/expecting for every 1st round pick you make, they are supposed to turn into players you sign to multiple contracts and are the cornerstone players for your franchise.

You shouldn't be drafting a player in the 1st round that you don't think should be getting a big contract in 3 or 4 years, if you don't think that's the case, then you're making the wrong selection in the 1st round (especially in the Top 20, maybe 25-32 is more questionable, but not by much).

We know T-Mac is going to be a star, if the expectation is for a WR drafted in the 1st this year is also expected to be as much, that's two huge contracts to give out in back to back years.  While at the same time, Coker has already proven to be at minimum, a great #3 in this league IMO.  It's not going to be a far leap to see him become a bona fide #2, if not even a high end #2 this upcoming season with some improvement and sustained health.

Edited by tukafan21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll also say this, for all the crap we give him, myself included.  If we are able to find a solid #3 WR to play in the slot and XL becomes our #4, he might actually be the best #4 WR in the league, at worst, Top 5.

I think our WR is being slept on for some reason, yes we need to add one more, but T-Mac and Coker as a 1-2 and XL as a #4 has serious potential, especially as T-Mac takes the next step to stardom this season.

I also think if he went to work this offeason, it's not out of the question to see Horn Jr step up and take over the slot role, as he might not be a complete WR right now, but he very well may have exactly what we need from that role with his speed and elusiveness.

He does have a nice complimentary set of skills to what T-Mac and Coker bring to the table, it's just a matter if he can sharpen up a few areas and get on the field more to show it (which I think is a real possibility).

Edited by tukafan21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • In before: "XL sucks, there is no hope." "As long as we have Bryce, none of this matters." My response: "It's X, not XL...we're not discussing apparel sizes, or we'd have to consider XS."  
    • Alain Pierre provides some food for thought on Last Word On Sports regarding Xavier Legette, and his article, though specifically on X, kind of puts me in the mind of QBs being overdrafted and put into situations that they're not prepared for, some ultimately failing due to drafting missteps by front offices who don't necessarily view prospective players within the contextual importance that situations demand.  At this point, Legette looks like a failure in reference to expectations, of not only what a consistently productive NFL receiver looks like, but a first round pick (which he obviously should never have been). But the story on X isn't necessarily completely over. Damn. I seem to be experiencing deja vu...It wasn't X's fault that he was overdrafted, that was a choice by an FO that obviously downplayed actual realized skill vs outstanding measurables and upside. Sure, the FO was impressed by X's one-year feats during his senior season at South Carolina, but it was the NFL god, RAS (a.k.a. Raw Athletic Score), that had Dave Canales's and Dan Morgan's jaws dropping in amazement at the sight of X running around in underwear at the Combine...   "At 6-foot-3 and over 220 pounds, Legette brought rare athletic upside to the position. His breakout season at South Carolina showed flashes of dominance that NFL teams dream of. Projecting forward, many scouts compared his physical profile to D.K. Metcalf, and the Panthers clearly believed they could develop him into a true wide receiver 1 over time. The issue was never his talent. The issue was the timeline. Just a few picks later, the Chargers selected Ladd McConkey, a receiver who may have lacked Xavier Legette’s physical ceiling but entered the league far more technically refined. McConkey immediately showed advanced route discipline, leverage awareness, good pacing, and separation ability.  Bryce Young’s game has always depended on timing and anticipation. His best football at Alabama came with receivers capable of winning through precision rather than pure athleticism. Jameson Williams and John Metchie III were excellent route runners and were able to get drafted in 2022. McConkey naturally fit that style of play. Legette, meanwhile, needed significant development in the exact areas where Bryce Young needed help. The Panthers drafted traits when Bryce Young needed reliability."   Yes, the FO was guilty. The good thing is that the execs appear to be improving. Some of that may be attributed to the hiring of Eric Eager (who was hired right after the Xavier Legette draft). Eager seems to have helped the Panthers FO fine-tune their analytical progress, and, at least on paper, they acquired players with a lot of value during the last draft in regards to actually (what I'll refer to as) "underdrafting" talent relative to their position with value already built in.  Look at Chris Brazzell: He may be more of the quintessential project receiver who was arguably more or less just as raw as Legette was when he was drafted, and with a relatively high RAS as well. The notable difference is value, as Brazzell was a round three pick and Legette was a first rounder.    "Unlike the Xavier Legette situation, Carolina’s environment for Brazzell is completely different. "The Panthers are not asking a raw receiver prospect to stabilize this offense for Bryce Young. "Brazzell enters a much healthier developmental situation with far less pressure. With Tetairoa McMillan established as the primary target and Jalen Coker continuing to settle as the number 2 option...Xavier Legette, Metchie III, and Jimmy Horn Jr. are also still in this rotation, fighting for reps. "It gives Carolina something they failed to give Legette when they drafted him: A developmental runway. "Xavier Legette entered the league with expectations attached to a first-round pick and an offense desperate for answers. Brazzell enters a room where he can spend a year working on his route running, learning the playbook, and earning snaps gradually rather than being asked to become part of Bryce Young’s solution immediately. "And truthfully, Brazzell needs that time coming out of college. Despite his elite physical tools, many evaluators have several concerns about his overall polish as a receiver. "His route tree at Tennessee was viewed as fairly limited due to the type of offense that they run. The receivers are expected to run a lot of choice routes, which are dictated by the placement of the defenders. It doesn’t require technical route-running and an understanding of the playbook needed at the NFL level...   "Context changes significantly when expectations change. "The Panthers are not depending on Brazzell to save the offense. They can allow him to develop slowly, expand his route tree, improve his technical refinement, and learn behind a much more stable receiver room... "Traits become much easier to bet on when patience is built into the plan."   It's all about understanding your situation. I don't agree that it's an inherently difficult choice like the author is suggesting in the following excerpt. At the very least, I think that it should be easier as long as all parties involved stay levelheaded and true to their process.    "That is what makes these draft decisions so difficult. "Every front office believes it can find the next Metcalf, Owens, or Marshall. Sometimes they do. More often, they are betting on a development path that may take years to complete. "The challenge is understanding what your offense needs right now. "If a team has patience, stability, and a quarterback capable of carrying the offense while a receiver develops, betting on traits can make sense. But if a young quarterback needs immediate help, there is a strong argument for prioritizing the receiver who already knows how to separate, create throwing , and earn trust from day one. "That’s why the Xavier Legette-Ladd McConkey debate remains so fascinating. "It was never really a discussion about talent. It was a discussion about timing."   For me, Ladd McConkey was talented enough in his own right, that the gap--the upside--was never as big as people are suggesting between not only McConkey and Legette, but McConkey and other receivers drafted in the first round during that draft. The technique divide between Ladd and X was pretty stark though, as was the roughly 35 pounds, but the speed was identical, the maybe 1½ height difference isn't huge (6' and 6'1"), and it may surprise some that Ladd's RAS (9.34) was also enough to put him in the top 10 percent of receivers since 1987. There is an argument that he would've been a better pick for Bryce and the Panthers, regardless of timeline and talent. But, I still appreciate the thesis (if you will) of the article, as it still provides some hope--perhaps a glimmer at this point, that X's RAS may finally translate to the NFL given more time, but, perhaps more importantly, it explains how Dan Morgan and company are showing improvement, even if it appears somewhat understated. My hope is that continued improvement is palpable by this time next year. https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2026/05/30/xavier-legette-draft-lessons/#google_vignette        
    • Won’t stop until people stop buying overpriced poo.
×
×
  • Create New...