what should we expect from a Meeks DL?

[rayzor]

I did some comparing of the Panthers and the Colts DLs going back to 2002 (fox's 1st year here and Meeks 1st in Indy).

First, our DLs have been much bigger than the Colts. Our DEs have been normally 6'3 and taller (only 3 have been shorter...Jovan Haye, Troy Brown, and Charles Johnson are all 6'2), the two most prominent ones, Rucker and Peppers were 6'5 and 6'6. the average height for our DEs has been around 6'5. Their weight has usually been around the 250-260lb range.

Meanwhile for the Colts, the two tallest DEs for the Colts have been 6'5, the rest a couple inches shorter. The best DEs that they have had for most of that time frame has been Freeney and Mathis. Freeney is 6'1 268lb, Mathis 6'2 245.

The Panthers have preferred large DTs, in 2002 we had a DT that was 6'8 310lbs (and a 6'7 280lb DE). With the exception of 3, all of our DTs have been 6'4 and taller. Buckner, Morehead, and Lewis are all 6'2. Morehead is the smallest we have had at 285 lbs. the weight of the DTs has been all over the map above 285 but generally they have been over 300lbs.

The Colts DTs 6'3 and smaller and only one reached 300 pounds. The rest were around 6'2 or 6'3 and within 275-300lbs. There is one exception on size and that is Raheem Brock who floats between starting DT and DE and is 6'4 274lbs.

Now it has been pretty well known that Meeks has been getting it done with smaller DTs but the truth is it has been a much smaller Dline all the way down. So what has he been getting done?

No secret that they used the Tampa2 in Indy. For those who don't know much about that, the Dline is the source of QB pressure constantly. Blitzing is incredibly rare, much more so than the Panthers do. It stands to reason that the vast majority of sacks would come from the Dline. Gary Brackett, easily one of the 10 best MLBs in the league, has only 2.5 sacks in his career.

Since 2002 the Colts have had 241 sacks. 212 (88%) of that has come from the Dline. 168.5 (70%) has been from the DEs while 43.5 (18%) has come from the DTs. During that time they have had a top 10 Pass Def 5 times. Going back from 2008 6th, 2nd, 2nd, 15th, 28th, 5th, 2nd. It was bad in '05 and '04 but they had Jason David and Nick Harper as CBs. In '04 they had Idrees Bashir as a starting safety. Much of the reason for their success had to do with what their front 4 did. With the exception of Bob Sanders and Gary Brackett, they haven't had much talent on their back 7.

The Panthers, since 2002, have had 272 sacks. 201 (73%) have come from the DL. 144 (52%) from the DEs and 57 (21%) from the DTs. We have had a top 10 Pass Def 4 times. Going back from 2008 16th, 17th, 4th, 9th, 18th, 9th, 4th.

I will say that our current LBs and DBs are probably better than any mix that the Colts have had in that time frame. Sanders and Brackett are still solid but overall, our back 7 is better than what they have had.

If Meeks can create the same success using our DL i have little reason to doubt that our Pass Defense will continually be in the top 10 or even 5. As solid as our back 7 is, our run defense should be very strong as well.

If we are going to a Tampa2, expect to see a whole lot more out of our Dline, especially our DEs no matter who it is we have playing there. Will Fox start moving towards a smaller Dline instead of the large one he used for most of his time here? One thing that we may see in the DTs and DEs that are sure to come in this offseason is quickness more than size. I do think that the Line will remain larger than what the Colts had.

Regardless of who we have on that DL, there is going to be a lot more required of them and I expect they will live up to the challenge. I would not be a bit surprised to see in '09 regular season 38 sacks...32 of which will come from the Dline and 26 from the DEs. Considering the very real possibility that we will have lost Peppers, this would be no small task but one I feel is very attainable. If Peppers stays, those numbers could go quite a bit higher.

Meanwhile our Pass Def goes well into the top 10 with much better control over the middle of the field.

Agree...disagree?

[PhillyB]

sadly, speculation is purely that - it's only speculation. excellent writeup, it's clear you did your research... but I don't know how much accurate guesses are going to be. we may have to wait until july or august to get any sort of idea (or april, arguably, if we draft DL.)

i don't see fox shifting to a blitz-rare package, either... he is in no way blitz-heavy, but the true tampa two is something we won't adopt (i think that's been discussed on here as well.) I would expect a hybrid T2 to differ largely in that area.

If we don't address our needs on the DL, we'll HAVE to blitz. Luckily our LB corps is kickass, so that may help us there.

[Brooklyn Bully]

What should we EXPECT? A better defensive scheme then we've used as of late, and better all-around play from the players in both attitude and action.

What will we GET? Only time will tell.

It's as generic as that because this isn't the Colts. He has to work with what he has here. Let's hope he can work with what he has rather beautifully and hope nobody steps on his toes.

[carpanfan96]

Connor Barwin in round 2 fits Meek's style perfectly IMO. I also expect to see Taylor to get more time at de next season, because of his speed and pass rush. He adds 10 - 15 pounds in the off season, he might be able to grab the starting spot from Brayton. Mainly because the front four in a tampa 2 style defense have to get pressure and he's a weak link in terms of pass rush at DE (he's great at stopping the run though.)

[HSCBandit07]

Any research on how that would affect our rushing D? Aside from NO our other two division opponents are run first teams.

[rayzor]

hilee was an interesting one for me when i started looking at this because he actually fits the typical colts type DE. He's just a little lighter (well about 18 pounds) but taller than freeney and the same height as mathis and about 5 pounds heavier. He has room to pack on some bulk but it isn't really needed for him to be effective coming around the edge. i think the main problem with him is that he over-pursues, which is something that can be corrected.

looking at the bears DEs (who also run the tampa2) they aren't much bigger than hillee, either. alex brown is 6'3 260 and ogunleye is 6'4 but only 260 pounds.

[rayzor]

Any research on how that would affect our rushing D? Aside from NO our other two division opponents are run first teams.

2 of the top 5 teams against the run were tampa2 defenses. minny was 1st and the bears were the 5th.

minny relied on the williams wall...kevin @6-5 311 and pat @ 6-3 317.

the bears relied more on tommie harris...6-3 295.

indy has always had some problems with the rush defense, though. i'm not sure why that is. Like i said earlier, i think that our back 7 is better than what the colts have had and they should be able to contain the run if it gets beyond the line.

the funny thing about the bears and the vikings, though....they weren't all that great against the pass. the vikings were 18th and the bears 30th. i know a lot of the bears problems had to do with inadequacies at FS and their CB, tillman, was injured a lot. in 05 they were 5th against the pass and 11th against the run. if we can get our Dline sorted out i would put our D over that one anyday.

what will be the key, though, to our being solid against the run will be the rest of the defenses quickness and responsiveness. we have a pretty fast defense. our LBs are incredibly quick. our DBs are pretty fast as well. one of the things that thomas davis said when he was talking about a meeks defense is that he knows the D has to be prepared to run a lot. our fast back 7 is going to be even quicker by the time meeks gets through with them.

[manwithcake]

indy has always had some problems with the rush defense, though. i'm not sure why that is. Like i said earlier, i think that our back 7 is better than what the colts have had and they should be able to contain the run if it gets beyond the line.

Look at who they've had at LB. Meeks is licking his chops to get a hold of our LB core.

[dpanthersman]

even if peppers leaves i honestly think we got great talent on defense. all we realy need is some depth on the d-line and another corner (which i think well be able to feel both these needs in the draft) IMO the scheme we was running last year just didnt suit our defense well. but im confident meeks will come up with a scheme that suits the players we have and the rest of the staff will correct a few things that maybe holding some of our younger guys back like hilee, and wilson. the first half of the season i want be suprised if our defense struggles but hopefully by the playoffs things will start to click and well have one of the top defenses around

[Raskle]

I'd be happy if we could cover the friggin Tight End.... seriously, I'm so sick of 3rd and long and the TE catches over the middle to keep the other team's drive alive. After 7 years of watching that position look like a stealth bomber, I'm ready to see someone lay some wood to those guys.

[dexterpyro]

I dont think we will run a straight Tampa 2... I think Meeks will look at our personnel and implement a standard T2 with some "quirks" that will fit our people. Meeks is a very smart guy and he will have our total defense in at least the top 10.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't know how much of the Colts defensive style will transfer here, honestly.

The Colts defense was built on undersized, speedy players because their primary object was to stop the pass. The Colts offense has been so potent that it forced teams to abandon the run game earlier than they would have liked. Thus, pure pass rushers like Freeney could just pin their ears back and go.

Over the past few seasons, teams decided not to abandon the run and the Colt defense started getting bulldozed. Manning and the offense were generally strong enough to win those games as often as not. Still, it wasn't as easy as before.

The Panther offense, strong though it might be, is never going to be the Colts offense. Nor should it be. Thus, using the principles that made it (and were later exploited) would be a mistake.

I think Meeks will use a Cover 2 style, and it meshes well with Fox's defensive ideas, but it won't look like Indy.

[scpanther22]

were does slow kemo fit into all of this..

[Mr. Scot]

were does slow kemo fit into all of this..

In the same place Anthony McFarland did.