IR Lists Don't Doom Everyone . . .

[AceMan]

This is why the Panthers will be better than the 49er's in a couple years!

Not exactly...:o

[panthers55]

Chemistry also goes a long way to having a winning team when players go down. With the Panthers this year, short training camp, new coaches and schemes...there just wasn't time to come together as a team.

Since I don't follow the 49ers anymore, not sure how much changing Harbaugh did, but with the way they are playing I am going to say he really didn't change much other than the attitude.

That is a good point. If it is was just 12 guys on IR that would be a huge problem, but that in 9 games this year the starting defense was different in 8 of them, for example. Forget that we are installing a new scheme on defense unlike San Francisco who have the same system, have a ton of new, unexperienced players who have never worked in this scheme. Forget that almost everyone said that we would struggle mightily this year due to the lockout.

Lets blame the coach and expect to go 10-6. LOL

[koolkatluke]

Bottom line is not the number of players on IR but the quality of the players on IR. Five starters which includes the middle of your defense is the problem. Also with the guys being on IR your backups are having to play in the "starting role" which effects the quality of your special teams.

Great post Big CD!! It's not like the San Fran is missing P willis and their most vet DT. You can't build depht in a new system with a Lockout offseason.

[RevJ]

Bottom line is not the number of players on IR but the quality of the players on IR. Five starters which includes the middle of your defense is the problem. Also with the guys being on IR your backups are having to play in the "starting role" which effects the quality of your special teams.

I agree - the Packers lost 86 games to injury (figuring on opening day starters) - we might get close to that but not going to be a huge difference

I think they lost as much / more quality than we did.

Among them:

RB Ryan Grant -Starting RB (1250+ yards in 2009)

S Morgan Burnett - stats this year (3 int - 2 FF)

LB Nick Barnett - starter - former Def ROTY

T Mark Tauscher - veteran tackle

TE Jermichael Finley - looking like he will get franchise tag and I would trade anyone except Cam on our offense for him.

Not sure one could make a case that Beason, Davis, Edwards, Otah, and Gettis would be significantly more of a loss - at least not outside Carolina.

They also lost 4 LB (Barnett, Poppinga, Chillar, Jones)

I recognize all the names easily except Brad Jones but he had 27 tackles in 6 games.

As to value, how many Panther fans could name the three "Williams" we have lost - esp. after you tell them DeAngelo isn't one of them?

[koolkatluke]

I agree - the Packers lost 86 games to injury (figuring on opening day starters) - we might get close to that but not going to be a huge difference

I think they lost as much / more quality than we did.

Among them:

RB Ryan Grant -Starting RB (1250+ yards in 2009)

S Morgan Burnett - stats this year (3 int - 2 FF)

LB Nick Barnett - starter - former Def ROTY

T Mark Tauscher - veteran tackle

TE Jermichael Finley - looking like he will get franchise tag and I would trade anyone except Cam on our offense for him.

Not sure one could make a case that Beason, Davis, Edwards, Otah, and Gettis would be significantly more of a loss - at least not outside Carolina.

They also lost 4 LB (Barnett, Poppinga, Chillar, Jones)

I recognize all the names easily except Brad Jones but he had 27 tackles in 6 games.

As to value, how many Panther fans could name the three "Williams" we have lost - esp. after you tell them DeAngelo isn't one of them?

None of those LB were brought back. Ryan Grant wasn't really that good. They had their Franchise QB and most of their offense for more then 8 months. Be real what are you arguing here. This is not the same situation as any other team you can name.

1. New coaching staff and system.

2. Lockout offseason

3. Injuries to impact players

4. Rookie QB leading the team

You find a team with all these situation at once that had a good record. When you don't this thread can end.

[rayzor]

I agree - the Packers lost 86 games to injury (figuring on opening day starters) - we might get close to that but not going to be a huge difference

I think they lost as much / more quality than we did.

Among them:

RB Ryan Grant -Starting RB (1250+ yards in 2009)

S Morgan Burnett - stats this year (3 int - 2 FF)

LB Nick Barnett - starter - former Def ROTY

T Mark Tauscher - veteran tackle

TE Jermichael Finley - looking like he will get franchise tag and I would trade anyone except Cam on our offense for him.

Not sure one could make a case that Beason, Davis, Edwards, Otah, and Gettis would be significantly more of a loss - at least not outside Carolina.

They also lost 4 LB (Barnett, Poppinga, Chillar, Jones)

I recognize all the names easily except Brad Jones but he had 27 tackles in 6 games.

As to value, how many Panther fans could name the three "Williams" we have lost - esp. after you tell them DeAngelo isn't one of them?

wait...what?

never mind.

forget that this was just one piece of the clusterf*ck.

where they trying to implement anything new? did they have a new rookie QB starting out? new coaches? new schemes?

or were these teams that managed to do well despite losing so many "key" personnel able to do so because they were playing on a team that had it's offense in place for a decade or more, not to mention a franchise QB that is among the top 3 in the league and even though it was a fairly new defense, it was in it's second season.

or do those not matter because it doesn't fit into your argument that we are just using IR as an excuse?

[RevJ]

None of those LB were brought back. Ryan Grant wasn't really that good. They had their Franchise QB and most of their offense for more then 8 months. Be real what are you arguing here. This is not the same situation as any other team you can name.

1. New coaching staff and system.

2. Lockout offseason

3. Injuries to impact players

4. Rookie QB leading the team

You find a team with all these situation at once that had a good record. When you don't this thread can end.

I totally agree on #1,2,4. My original point was to hopefully put a damper on the "nobody has luck like ours" doom that takes away from the things that have us where we are at. IR has been a hit but it has not been unprecedented and it has been overcome - as recently as last year.

As far as being real. Grant (really not that good) has two 1200+ yard seasons - something no other Panther RB on our roster has attained. Barnett wasn't brought back because he was signed to a $4 million per year free agent contract and Jones is on this year's roster. Finley has more receiving TD than anyone on our roster.

I think they were able to cover these losses because they had superior depth, not because they were meaningless players who really didn't count. That's just part of the "our luck is worse than everybody else" syndrome, which was the point of the post from the beginning.

I believe we will build that depth and be able to get back to a place of prominence - I would just rather take our lumps now and not play the "what if" card.

[Borat]

They don't doom teams with ARod, Jennings, Driver, Nelson, etc.

[Davidson Deac II]

Amid the talk of our season lost due to IR - remember last year. One team lost 15 to IR, including key starters. Their result - World Champions. They played a key late season game against another team with huge IR losses - the New England Patriots.

Among this year's "leaders" with # on IR

Bills - 11

Pats - 9

Jags - 16

Giants - 10 (9 on D)

Lions - 8

I know, stats are for losers - so ar

e excuses.

Rosters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NFL_team_rosters

Pack Overcomes

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5923437

Pats Don't Quit Either

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4689786/packers-patriots-know-about-ir

So basically, the only team on your list with more IR's than us is one of the two teams we beat. What point are you trying to make?

[koolkatluke]

I totally agree on #1,2,4. My original point was to hopefully put a damper on the "nobody has luck like ours" doom that takes away from the things that have us where we are at. IR has been a hit but it has not been unprecedented and it has been overcome - as recently as last year.

As far as being real. Grant (really not that good) has two 1200+ yard seasons - something no other Panther RB on our roster has attained. Barnett wasn't brought back because he was signed to a $4 million per year free agent contract and Jones is on this year's roster. Finley has more receiving TD than anyone on our roster.

I think they were able to cover these losses because they had superior depth, not because they were meaningless players who really didn't count. That's just part of the "our luck is worse than everybody else" syndrome, which was the point of the post from the beginning.

I believe we will build that depth and be able to get back to a place of prominence - I would just rather take our lumps now and not play the "what if" card.

My point is you can't have 1,2,3, and 4 happen to a team in 1 season and expect a good record.

With out the injuries we no doubt in my opinion would have a better record.

Ryan grnt is not the same player since his injureis after the 1,200 yard season. James starks was able to fill in well for them during the playoffs.

They have superior depht because their back ups have been in the same system for more then 3 months. If your a back up who has been learning in the same system for a few years. You would look better then a back up who is in a new system.

Some people on here may have this gloom and doom thing going but that is no difference from any fan base. Most Fans on here know the situation we are in and are willing to let the process play out. Before going into to doom and gloom mode.

[rodeo]

Out of those 11 on IR for the Bills? 1 or 2 starters.

You can't just look at the number of people on IR. You have to look at whether they are key people or not.

[Lumps]

You can sit around and make excuses for every year.

The only fact that remains is you lost and didn't win. There is no excuse for utter failure. Stop the bullpoo guys we aren't going 8-8 here wake up we are worse than just sucking. Our backups need to be better. I don't expect Thomas Davis 2.0 but you can't rely completely on first stringers.

I don't buy the whole time period learning bullpoo either. More excuses. Too many teams have turned around quicker than anyone imagined and this team is not completely worthless and completely in learning mode. There are plenty of guys on the team who know what they are doing.

This is not to say I don't take all these things into consideration when I decide whether I am happy where the team is right now, 7-9, 8-8 would have made me happy but I am sorry this is not enough improvement. Our backups don't suck, their worthless. Maybe 3 average players are better than 1 good one and no body else?

I guess my point is even with all things considered we suck more than we should and in more ways than we should.

[rayzor]

I guess my point is even with all things considered we suck more than we should and in more ways than we should.

it sucks more because the situation sucks. sh*t happened at the wrong time. it sucks, but that is the way it happens sometimes.

you can move on or sit down and piss and moan about it and start pointing fingers at everyone but i guarantee you it won't make you feel any better and it won't have any basis in reality.

you just shrug your shoulders and move on and look forward to next year...or you find another team that isn't going through a rough time.

[Jangler]

Come on, most of us had realistic expectations going into the season. Then Cam came out and surprised everybody (at least most) then we started thinking maybe if the D can keep up, even a depleted D we might make the playoffs. Well half way and now the NFL has film on Cam and the D is playing much better, but we need a little more from the D now, like a score and less penalties from the team. I have given up on STs.

So... I am not worried about this year.