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Cam hasn't taken a step back

Zod

By Zod,
in Carolina Panthers

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CatMan72 Enthusiast

CatMan72

Posted
Posted

The conventional wisdom is to blitz a rookie QB... Arizona and GB tried that and Cam threw for 400+ yards against each of them. Teams have learned that Cam defies conventional wisdom, it's better to drop 7 or 8 back in a zone and make him read coverage.

We REALLY need to start taking advantage of this with our running game.

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Fan01 Enthusiast

Fan01

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I wonder how much of our offense Chud has taught Cam and how much Cam really feels solid in. The teams admitted in the beginning of the year they only installed the basics of Chud's offense with many playing to Cam's strength (like the option). Now, they're added plays each week but I imagine they've still got a lot to go.

I think they've limited Cam's playbook on purpose as he transitions to the NFL. Because of this other teams have be able to more easily game plan for him. I can't imagine what he's going to be like next year when he's got the full playbook.

I also think this is why we don't see many adjusts on offense yet. Cam and Chud have not have time to learn the adjusts. They get ready for a game with a set gameplan. Cam practices that all week, gets good at it but when it gets countered in a game he (and Chud) are limited in what they can counter the counter with.

It happens to some extent to all rookies. It's impressive that Cam's been able to do as much as he had with a limited playbook. When he learns it all, watch out.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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I wonder how much of our offense Chud has taught Cam and how much Cam really feels solid in. The teams admitted in the beginning of the year they only installed the basics of Chud's offense with many playing to Cam's strength (like the option). Now, they're added plays each week but I imagine they've still got a lot to go.

I think they've limited Cam's playbook on purpose as he transitions to the NFL. Because of this other teams have be able to more easily game plan for him. I can't imagine what he's going to be like next year when he's got the full playbook.

I also think this is why we don't see many adjusts on offense yet. Cam and Chud have not have time to learn the adjusts. They get ready for a game with a set gameplan. Cam practices that all week, gets good at it but when it gets countered in a game he (and Chud) are limited in what they can counter the counter with.

It happens to some extent to all rookies. It's impressive that Cam's been able to do as much as he had with a limited playbook. When he learns it all, watch out.

I might me making this up but I remember Rivera saying that they were not holding things back but gave Cam the whole offense. It was customized to him but not limited in complexity or completeness. In fact didn't Cam know more of the offense than most players after working with Weinke in Florida.

I don't know whether it is not knowing the audibles or not reading the defense and changing the audibles that often. The result is the same but the reason is not.

Seems to me that what he will learn is not the playbook but how to apply it. That comes with time as you understand the complexities on both sides of the ball, not just your own.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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I might me making this up but I remember Rivera saying that they were not holding things back but gave Cam the whole offense. It was customized to him but not limited in complexity or completeness. In fact didn't Cam know more of the offense than most players after working with Weinke in Florida.

I don't know whether it is not knowing the audibles or not reading the defense and changing the audibles that often. The result is the same but the reason is not.

Seems to me that what he will learn is not the playbook but how to apply it. That comes with time as you understand the complexities on both sides of the ball, not just your own.

I could be wrong here, but I do remember a quote where one of the coaches seemed to imply that we weren't limited in what we could do on offense because of Cam being a rookie... I kinda thought what they meant was that we had the base offense installed enough that they felt comfortable with what they could do, more than they necessarily had our entire playbook put in completely already. This was early in the season I think, maybe even in preseason right after Cam was named starter? I may be wrong if you are referring to a different quote.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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I could be wrong here, but I do remember a quote where one of the coaches seemed to imply that we weren't limited in what we could do on offense because of Cam being a rookie... I kinda thought what they meant was that we had the base offense installed enough that they felt comfortable with what they could do, more than they necessarily had our entire playbook put in completely already. This was early in the season I think, maybe even in preseason right after Cam was named starter? I may be wrong if you are referring to a different quote.

The quote I remember was around week 2 when he was replying to reporters in a press conference. I think you are right, they didn't have time to put in the whole playbook and are probably still installing it as we speak. But the reason the playbook was limited wasn't because of Cam's understanding of the plays but the number of variations to learn and master with limited practice.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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The quote I remember was around week 2 when he was replying to reporters in a press conference. I think you are right, they didn't have time to put in the whole playbook and are probably still installing it as we speak. But the reason the playbook was limited wasn't because of Cam's understanding of the plays but the number of variations to learn and master with limited practice.

Yes, exactly, I may not have been clear but my interpretation was the limiting factor wasn't really Cam but the offense & time and they didn't feel limited in what they could do as an offense because they were able to get the base installed.

I do think they are still adding plays and packages, though. We've heard a few times now that this is the largest/most complicated (depending on the source) offense these guys have ever seen, so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see everything put in place 'till next offseason.

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TrueDat Newbie

TrueDat

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Teeray taking names and kicking Dats butt with his own logic. I have to admit though you are willing to go on and on forever. I did like the three and out and then a 80 yard drive example versus flipping the field and the same drive. Even casual football fans know that flipping the field is a good thing but in YPP parlance it is a bad thing unless you score. Of course I brought up the same kind of argument to him 200 posts ago.......

Just sayin............

Yeah. Psst...here's why sometimes I don't respond to Teeray. He just wrote a book on a point I made where he gets proven wrong....

That is the nearly difference of a football field for us. We have had 98 possessions (before this last week). That is an extra 95.06 yards we have had to travel to get to the endzone. Although we may be closer to the median after this week because we got some short fields.

He went from taking about starting field position per drive which made no difference in his argument and decided to try to argue it for the season.

What I said:

16th: 27.61 yards

Carolina 23rd: 26.74

This is from your site that you love so much. http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

So how much difference is our special teams losing versus the rest of the NFL? 0.97 yards? Our special teams starting field position accounts for 0.14 of a drive's efficiency ratio. What was your point again?

In reality what just happened is he just got proved wrong and you pied him for it. This is why he argues for a week.

Basically what that actually says is special teams starting field position isn't the reason this team's had horrible efficiency. It takes 10 games, for the difference in special teams starting position(less than a yard per drive) to equal the effect the offense has on its own efficiency by driving down to the endzone and not scoring one time in one game.

So....most of the time it's pointless rambling of him trying to figure out some other way to argue his biased viewpoint. It makes no difference in his argument. And you think "I got owned".

lol

PS: What he's really trying to argue is against the obvious: This offense is solely responsible for its own fug ups and it causes this team to be inefficiency and lose football games.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

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Not even gone for a day, back here trolling again. You and teeray are a pair. Figured you would quit while you are behind but that was naive. Here is to another 100 posts of saying the same thing over and over. Let it go, you aren't convincing anyone to change their view. Now instead of the issue, the focus in on your trolling behavior. Is that really what you want people to think. Sometimes you have to lose a few battles to ultimately win the war. When you figure that out, we can have a conversation.

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rayzor Grand Master

rayzor

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The quote I remember was around week 2 when he was replying to reporters in a press conference. I think you are right, they didn't have time to put in the whole playbook and are probably still installing it as we speak. But the reason the playbook was limited wasn't because of Cam's understanding of the plays but the number of variations to learn and master with limited practice.
Yes, exactly, I may not have been clear but my interpretation was the limiting factor wasn't really Cam but the offense & time and they didn't feel limited in what they could do as an offense because they were able to get the base installed.

I do think they are still adding plays and packages, though. We've heard a few times now that this is the largest/most complicated (depending on the source) offense these guys have ever seen, so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see everything put in place 'till next offseason.

they gave him the whole playbook but as a team it was taking a lot of time to get installed. every week was a new installation of it. when the season actually started they had gotten to the point that they should have been heading into training camp.

from everything i have read, them not having the whole playbook installed didn't have much to do with cam as much as it had to do with the whole team learning it. the issue has been a lack of time necessary to get everyone on the same page(s).

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teeray Collaborator

teeray

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You owned me? You took one part of my paragraph that said:

When you rank near the bottom in starting field position, your YPP will be hurt as it compares to the rest of the league. You have to travel more yards to score plus it decreases the likelihood of scoring at all. If your defense ranks at the bottom in takeaways it effects you YPP because you lose gained field position that other teams are getting. When you rank near the bottom in defensive and special teams touchdowns again it negatively effects how your YPP ranks across the league because you don't get that inflation. Therefore your rankings suffer.

There are three parts in there. Field position, defensive takeaways, and special teams and defensive touchdowns.

You took one of those things and said basically "we are slightly below average in that but it is really close." But those 95 yards are also 95 yards that could get potentially tacked on to YPP. That is what I was referring to. 1 yard doesn't seem like much but it adds up over time.

You might think that it is not a big deal but in terms of YPP don't you think it is ironic that most teams leading in YPP also in the top half lead the league in starting field position?

GB YPP rank: 1 Field position rank: 4

Detroit YPP rank: 2 Field position rank: 5th

Chicago YPP rank: 3 Field position rank: 18th (7 non-offensive TDs)

SF YPP rank: 4 Field position rank: 1

Baltimore: YPP rank: 5 Field position rank: 10th

NY Jets YPP rank: 6th Field position rank: 6th

Cincy YPP rank: 7th Field position rank: 3rd

New Orleans YPP rank: 8th Field position rank 15th

Houston YPP rank: 9th Field position rank: 2nd

New England YPP rank: 10th Field position rank: 21st (Tom Brady)

Everyone of them are in the top ten in starting field position except the one with abnormally inflated YPP because of non-offensive TDs and the two best QBs not named Aaron Rodgers in all of football.

Just a strange coincidence??

The difference may seem small but that adds up over 16 games and is a huge disadvantage.

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Brandon Newbie

Brandon

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Why are people even using manufactured stats to evaluate an offense? The only real way to determine how good an offense is requires direct observation, and unfortunately most of the people arguing on both sides are ill-equipped to provide a proper evaluation.

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TrueDat Newbie

TrueDat

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You owned me? You took one part of my paragraph that said:

There are three parts in there. Field position, defensive takeaways, and special teams and defensive touchdowns.

You took one of those things and said basically "we are slightly below average in that but it is really close." But those 95 yards are also 95 yards that could get potentially tacked on to YPP. That is what I was referring to. 1 yard doesn't seem like much but it adds up over time.

You might think that it is not a big deal but in terms of YPP don't you think it is ironic that most teams leading in YPP also in the top half lead the league in starting field position?

GB YPP rank: 1 Field position rank: 4

Detroit YPP rank: 2 Field position rank: 5th

Chicago YPP rank: 3 Field position rank: 18th (7 non-offensive TDs)

SF YPP rank: 4 Field position rank: 1

Baltimore: YPP rank: 5 Field position rank: 10th

NY Jets YPP rank: 6th Field position rank: 6th

Cincy YPP rank: 7th Field position rank: 3rd

New Orleans YPP rank: 8th Field position rank 15th

Houston YPP rank: 9th Field position rank: 2nd

New England YPP rank: 10th Field position rank: 21st (Tom Brady)

Everyone of them are in the top ten in starting field position except the one with abnormally inflated YPP because of non-offensive TDs and the two best QBs not named Aaron Rodgers in all of football.

Just a strange coincidence??

The difference may seem small but that adds up over 16 games and is a huge disadvantage.

What's a YPP rank?

Wait till you see where all those teams "crappy" defenses are ranked in "ypp rank allowed"

Tell him jtgreensboro. You know this now;)

Hey if I can make one guy get it. I'm a happy camper.

PS: Yes and those 95 yards would have improved our offense's starting field position by a whopping: 0.5%. You think the fact we're missing 8 inches on our drives is what's making our offense inefficient? You are getting close Teeray. Really close. Don't give up. Guess who's really getting screwed over by who in starting defending field position: Panthers "ypp rank allowed" = 30th.

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