Could "the list" have been a bluff?

[carolinarolls]

Peppers doesn't have a contract. He has a tender offer which he hasn't accepted. That tender offer can be rescinded if we choose or he can be traded once he signs it.

If he sits out he will have even less interest next year and his salary prospects and Carey's 10% will plummet.

Peppers can negotiate with anybody but so far the interest level suggests that anybody is actually nobody.

Right now Carey will get no cash this year nor will Peppers unless he signs the tender and then we can do whatever we want with him. So Peppers is in control as long as he holds out. But what he is in control of is nothing, because as long as he holds out he is not in football this year and doesn't get a dime.

Peppers will make just under 17 mill next year or sit out. This represents a 30%+ raise...just like I said

speculation and a ridiculous one at that because he won't sit, he'll take the cash to the bank

you have no idea what the interest level is

he can sign before camp, do just enough to not be called an outright POS and expect a tag from Hurney next year for even more money..and you know it

there is no reason fr him to sign from where I sit and you cannot say there is no interest in him if the fear that inspired the tagging in the first place was that he would get scopped upwithout "compensation and that it might also be in the division or conference.

Which is it 55? No interest = no tagging. if he overvalued himself that is fine. that does not hurt the panthers. Hurney overvaluing him does hurt the panthers though doesn't it?

[carolinarolls]

And he would have a contract if we didn't tag him. The difference is this way, is that we get compensation if anyone wants him

If he IS traded then this figure he is making now, will actually be the starting point for any contract. So chances are this is his going rate whatever happens from here on. Remember we offered a contract to him not far off what Haynesworth got, which in turn would not be far off what he is receiving this year if you add signing bonus' to salaray and incentives.

Peppers is not subject to trade speculation because other teams do not want to negotiate with Carey. They have made that clear to the media on countless occassions, so this actually puts Peppers in more of a bind. To sign his tender will effectively lose him the leverage both you and he perceive that he has.

Not sure being 'at risk' of 'blocking' a trade is too much of a concern. Simple fact is, he can block trades in every situation regarding the franchise tender. Signed or un-signed. Not sure how you consider this important.

He always would be. No team will trade for him without a contract ready to be signed, so he gets to negotiate, with his agent, any deal that comes their and our way. The ONLY difference is that we can actively seek out interested parties and present them to Peppers. He STILL has the final say, so it is ludicrous to feel that his 'agent' has put him in a fantastic position but telling him not to sign the tender and releasing various statements about 'The List'.

Carey IS in a tight spot, because he wants TO GET PAID. You think he gets any $$$ for Peppers NOT signing his franchise tender and NOT getting any teams to trade for him? Nope, he gets naught for all his 'clever ideas'. Same with Pep.

Why oh why would Carey have to spin control if Pep did not want to go somewhere??? All he has to do is ask for ludicrous contract demands and that team dissapears?! It's not like the Panthers make any media noise about interested parties anyway. We are one of the quietest teams in this regard, so any team interested will stay behind closed doors until it's finished. Then and only then will the team that is completing the trade will be revelaed, the others will not even be mentioned!

The lesser of two evils you describe, depends on what the ultimately wanted to achieve. If the genuinely wanted to only move to a select number of teams then they should of signed the tender and allowed us to get the best compensation from one of those teams. As he has not, we are having to wait for Carey to try and determine what is fair compensation and then deliver it to us. NOT an efficient way of handling things. All Carey has achieved is to drag this whole ordeal throught an entire off-season and likely into the pre-season and possible the regular season.

You think many teams will dangle a big fat juicy contract in front of him after that? You think the Patriots or Steelers, who epitomise hard work and not taking any crap from their players will put up with that? Unlikely. Very very unlikely. Chances are, his reaction to the whole thing has scared those power houses from showing any interest. They do not want someone who may or may not pull his weight to suddenly show extreme lack of judgement towards the organisation that has turned him into a star. Why would any team feel that he would not do the same to them?!

This is a great post. What you have here is some very insightful and well thought out speculation though. I just presented the facts and those facts prove that Carey, no matter what his experience level is, has played this game very well with the few cards he was dealt and has kept the safety of his client and his client's reputation as the chief concern throughout. THAT is his job. It is not his job to sell his client to an NFL team. It's his job to make sure his client does not get cheated or unfairly devalued. The only people that think less of Julius Peppers now than they did last season are a handful of emotional Panther fans.

This could be a lot easier but it is clear that from the very beginning peppers did not want Marty Hurney to lead the search for his new home. There is no other reason for him to be following through as he has.

I can speculate about interest, future contract possibilities and negotiating tactics too but the only point I was making is that per his client's obvious wishes, he has his client in the best position possible and we- none of us- have a clue about what interest is generating behind the scenes. We can only...speculate.

As it stands now, they can strike out with all 31 teams, realize that there is no interest, possibly look devalued in the process, and then suck it up and go home. Who knows if Hurney could have done much better? Considering the strikes Pep has against him it's doubtful that a favorable trade would be exponentially more possible with a GM spearheading the efforts as opposed to anybody- experienced or not.

As far as theories go, one might even be able to make an argument that an "inexperienced" non agent without a clue could generate interest faster than Hurney just from a idea that the NFL franchises and their experience sharks could eat him alive. We can pretty much seculate anything.

This is not an easy situation as it is though and my opinion reains that given these circumstances, Peppers has been kept in a faily safe position thus far.

[Squirrel]

Peppers doesn't have a contract. He has a tender offer which he hasn't accepted. That tender offer can be rescinded if we choose or he can be traded once he signs it.

If he sits out he will have even less interest next year and his salary prospects and Carey's 10% will plummet.

Peppers can negotiate with anybody but so far the interest level suggests that anybody is actually nobody.

Right now Carey will get no cash this year nor will Peppers unless he signs the tender and then we can do whatever we want with him. So Peppers is in control as long as he holds out. But what he is in control of is nothing, because as long as he holds out he is not in football this year and doesn't get a dime.

Peppers has one thing left to hold out for and that is to not be franchised next offseason. Asonta Samuels and Briggs both got that the year they held out. That is a big thing if you are Peppers. If the Pathers agree to that I wouldnt have no problem with it. Atleast we would get one more year with him and we already have his replacement on the team.

[CatMan72]

you'll have to keep on waiting because you have closed your mind a long time ago to any possibility that hurney put the panthers in a better situation than peppers/carey put themselves in.

myself and others have been saying for a long time why the panthers are in a better situation and the way things are unfolding are only showing that to be the case.

You're both right/wrong. At the end of the day the Panthers and Peppers have each other over a barrel. The Panthers have tagged Peppers which means they can force him to stay but Peppers can just sit out, or otherwise become enough of a distraction that it will make more sense for the Panthers to move him.

[carolinarolls]

Peppers has one thing left to hold out for and that is to not be franchised next offseason. Asonta Samuels and Briggs both got that the year they held out. That is a big thing if you are Peppers. If the Pathers agree to that I wouldnt have no problem with it. Atleast we would get one more year with him and we already have his replacement on the team.

this may be where they are going. It would be worth it for peppers to play balls out for a year knowing full well he would have his release or have the option to sign long term. It seems like it would be worth it to get max effort from him for a year and buy some time to prove that the d is headed where it belongs too.

It does not clear up the fact of whether or not he actually "wants" to be there though.

[carolinarolls]

You're both right/wrong. At the end of the day the Panthers and Peppers have each other over a barrel. The Panthers have tagged Peppers which means they can force him to stay but Peppers can just sit out, or otherwise become enough of a distraction that it will make more sense for the Panthers to move him.

like i said it's tough. I just think its very irresponsible and a poor evaluation of the facts to say that Carey has done a poor job. The only people that can agree with that assesment are people that want him to sign that tender and do not give a damn about peppers.

[Urrymonster]

Peppers has one thing left to hold out for and that is to not be franchised next offseason. Asonta Samuels and Briggs both got that the year they held out. That is a big thing if you are Peppers. If the Pathers agree to that I wouldnt have no problem with it. Atleast we would get one more year with him and we already have his replacement on the team.

One more year with him would do wonders fo rus. First it would allow Brown to get a year under his belt, start off as a pass rush specialist and then add the bulk correctly over the course of two off-seasons, two pre season and this coming season.

I get the impression Hurney and the Panther FO are being stubborn about it because of the way Pep and Carey dealt with it. He could of gone down the Samuel and Briggs or even Haynesworth routes - but he didn't. I think the simple fact that we offered Pep a massive contract after he had his worst season as a pro, showed our loyalty and how we valued him. He in turn stalled through the season, gave us no time to chuck anything else at him and then made our lives very very difficult.

I would act in that way if I were Hurney. I would appear as calm and optimistic as possible, but behind the scenes I would be stubborn as hell and stick to my guns rather than giving him a 'thank you for your years here' deal to a team he wanted to go to. this way it's one of two alternatives, he stays for a year, we groom his replacement then he moves on - OR - he sits out and we do not pay him anything and he hurts his own value. Either way I am happy.

In fact I am happy with all the outcomes, unless we lose the locker room through all this. If he is traded, we get compensation. If he signs the tender to leave next year, we get his prime years and an extra year of his services and time to groom Brown. If he holds out, we still hold his rights, his value goes down AND we get our cap money back. If he signs a long term deal, he was never that serious and we have a SERIOUS pass rush potential.

[rayzor]

You're both right/wrong. At the end of the day the Panthers and Peppers have each other over a barrel. The Panthers have tagged Peppers which means they can force him to stay but Peppers can just sit out, or otherwise become enough of a distraction that it will make more sense for the Panthers to move him.

for the panthers what i have been saying is that it isn't an ideal situation but it looks better for them than for peppers as far as getting what they want.

panthers want peppers to play for them next year and that is the most likely situation...more or at the least just as likely at this point than any other.

panthers have been moving ahead and getting themselves for a year with or without him playing.

about options dwindling for peppers...if the pats move on taylor that makes the likelihood of him going there minute.

imo, it all boils down to 2 things

1) peppers doesn't want to play for the panthers

2) panthers want to pay him a lot of money to stay on the team

the way things are playing out him staying in the panthers uni is more likely than him playing in another, especially with the lack of attention that he has garnered from other teams. panthers franchising him was to keep him here and it's working. only way they were going to let him go was if they get what they are entitled to under the CBA...2 first round picks.

teams know this and know that the panthers are serious about this so this has cut out the number of teams willing to pursue him more than him saying he would only play for 4 teams.

it isn't the ideal situation for either party but it does look better for the panthers.

[carolinarolls]

where have the all-inclusive, daily "how much attention Julius Peppers is getting from NFL franchises" reports been coming from? I missed them.

the way things are playing out him staying in the panthers uni is more likely than him playing in another,

duh, they tagged him.

[carpanfan96]

Peppers has never had position, if he gets an offer sheet from a team. Carolina will just match it and he will be under contract with Carolina for better or worse. If Carey finds a trade Carolina has to accept it, if they can't find a trade he has two options either sit out or play for Carolina. He's lowered his trade demand with all his BS about the 4 teams and all that other crap to a point where nothing him and Carey bring back will satisfy the Panthers.

So yea, whatever chance he had at getting out this season is gone, which means with no cap next year, he'll be tagged again. So much for that move on Carey's part to get him off the Panthers, cause it didn't work.

[Snake]

well now you don't have to wonder any longer.

So spend your time a little wiser now and try to explain why believing that Carey is in a worse position than Hurney is NOT being foolish.

I am on pins and needles waiting...

You really don't catch on fast do you?

[carolinarolls]

Peppers has never had position, if he gets an offer sheet from a team. Carolina will just match it and he will be under contract with Carolina for better or worse. If Carey finds a trade Carolina has to accept it, if they can't find a trade he has two options either sit out or play for Carolina. He's lowered his trade demand with all his BS about the 4 teams and all that other crap to a point where nothing him and Carey bring back will satisfy the Panthers.

So yea, whatever chance he had at getting out this season is gone, which means with no cap next year, he'll be tagged again. So much for that move on Carey's part to get him off the Panthers, cause it didn't work.

very good point and highly possible that it ends up this way but its not over yet. Realizing this makes me believe that Carey has done a good job still though. If, like you say, it's impossible for him to leave anyway, why would they let Hurney shop him around in a way that could hurt him. Hurney was very smart to shop Jenkins the way he did because it devalued Jenkins somewhat. Peppers nor Carey wanted to see that and they knew he would do it. He would be smart to. Nobody is in a good spot but Peppers has the finger on his effort trigger and will laugh all the way to the bank for at least one year, most likely two.

[Snake]

Peppers has one thing left to hold out for and that is to not be franchised next offseason. Asonta Samuels and Briggs both got that the year they held out. That is a big thing if you are Peppers. If the Pathers agree to that I wouldnt have no problem with it. Atleast we would get one more year with him and we already have his replacement on the team.

I see no reason having a player on our team that dose not want to be here. Samuels and Briggs really never got what they wanted and had to give in to what the team was offering. Nether sat out for a whole year nor will peppers.

[Squirrel]

I see no reason having a player on our team that dose not want to be here. Samuels and Briggs really never got what they wanted and had to give in to what the team was offering. Nether sat out for a whole year nor will peppers.

Samuels and Briggs did get to be unrestricted FA the very next year. Samuels signed with the Eagles and Briggs looked around and realised the most money he would get was from the Bears. So they did get what they wanted just a year later.

They didnt sitout the whole year because the teams promised not to franchise them the next year.