Getting Cam a QB coach worth a damn

[Matthias]

Any QB coach is going to work with him on the fundamentals. I know it's important to Shula.

Newton makes some incredible throws. He also makes some incredulous throws. Like every gunslinger, he's a mix of "how did he do that" and "why did he do that" and probably always will be. You just have to maximize the positives and minimize the negatives (essentially the way they coached Favre).

Yet his bad throws aren't because of a gunslinging mentality. It's solely because of footwork, and eye balling one receiver. (Go with option one no matter what) I see gun slinging as just trying to make the big play on every down, yet with Cam, I see a willingness to make smart throws. I see him look off defenders like in that Eagles game. Gunslingers don't have stretches where they do not throw interceptions. It would be a perfect game for them if they don't throw an interception. Cam had 4-5 games where he didn't throw an int.

We just need the right coach to train him on that consistency. The guys we have in there now wanted to make Cam a one man show for most the season. Had they coach the season the way they did the last few games, Cam would have thrown much less ints, and more tds. Showing his true skills. Give me someone like Bruce Arians, a cat who knows how the QB position should be played, and we will see Cam's true skills emerge.

[Mr. Scot]

Yet his bad throws aren't because of a gunslinging mentality. It's solely because of footwork, and eye balling one receiver. (Go with option one no matter what) I see gun slinging as just trying to make the big play on every down, yet with Cam, I see a willingness to make smart throws. I see him look off defenders like in that Eagles game. Gunslingers don't have stretches where they do not throw interceptions. It would be a perfect game for them if they don't throw an interception. Cam had 4-5 games where he didn't throw an int.

We just need the right coach to train him on that consistency. The guys we have in their now wanted to make Cam a one man show for most the season. Had they coach the season the way they did the last few games, Cam would have thrown much less ints, and more tds. Showing his true skills. Give me someone like Bruce Arians, a cat who knows how the QB position should be played, and we will see Cam's true skills emerge.

I wouldn't say they're all due to bad footwork. Some definitely are, but like Favre, he takes a fair share of chances that he probably shouldn't.

That said, he's in a better position to get away with it. Onr thing a lot of people miss about favre is that he probably should have thrown about twice as many picks as he actually did, but his passes were such rockets that if you weren't anticipating them, picking them off often wasn't an easy thing, (kinda like catching a bullet). That's Newton too.

Believe me, more consistency is something I definitely want. But with this type of QB, that's not always gonna happen to the level you wish it would. You just have to work with what you've got.

And one very important thing: Do not try to coach that "gambler" out of him. It's one of the things that makes him what he is. they tried that with Delhomme and met with awful results.

[Matthias]

I wouldn't say they're all due to bad footwork. Some definitely are, but like Favre, he takes a fair share of chances that he probably shouldn't.

That said, he's in a better position to get away with it. Onr thing a lot of people miss about favre is that he probably should have thrown about twice as many picks as he actually did, but his passes were such rockets that if you weren't anticipating them, picking them off often wasn't an easy thing, (kinda like catching a bullet). That's Newton too.

Believe me, more consistency is something I definitely want. But with this type of QB, that's not always gonna happen to the level you wish it would. You just have to work with what you've got.

And one very important thing: Do not try to coach that "gambler" out of him. It's one of the things that makes him what he is. they tried that with Delhomme and met with awful results.

Delhomme was fine until his Tommy John surgery. After that, his arm strength got worse with each passing year. It was Delhomme's arm strength that did him in, but I would agree that Delhomme was a gambler.

Look at Newton's 2010 season with Auburn. In the SEC, he threw 30 tds to just 7 ints. Would you say that is gun slinging stats? Now Peyton in his rookie year (throwing to one of the best receivers in the history of the game), threw for a record 28 ints. Is Peyton a gun slinger? I see that same kind of fire in Newton's eyes to be the best QB in the game, to be an accurate passer. (I remember in an interview with Rachel Nichols, he commented on how his dad told him the correct way of holding the football was up high, but he later find out his dad didn't know what he was talking about. ^_^ So even in that piece, I see Cam's desire to be a fundamentally sound QB)

Again a 30 td/7 ints ratio are surgeon QB type numbers. I want to see that in Cam for the majority of his career, and we will see that with the right coaching. Coaches who desire to see the best out of Cam, and not just see a physical rushing threat of a passer.

[tiger7_88]

Yet his bad throws aren't because of a gunslinging mentality. It's solely because of footwork, and eye balling one receiver.

Gotta disagree here.

I've seen some throws where Cam drops back with perfect footwork and steps into the throw... and overthrows the receiver by 6 feet. :lol:

Its a mixed bag... some bad throws are gunslinging throws and some bad throws are technique throws.

Its a growing/learning process.

[unicar15]

We have the worst OL in the league. It's a shock he can throw the ball at all.

[Kakarot]

Hes going to work with George Whitfield again this summer.

Glad to see this. One thing about Cam is, you can't question his work ethic. He's wiling to put in the work to get better.

[Matthias]

Gotta disagree here.

I've seen some throws where Cam drops back with perfect footwork and steps into the throw... and overthrows the receiver by 6 feet. :lol:

Its a mixed bag... some bad throws are gunslinging throws and some bad throws are technique throws.

Its a growing/learning process.

I agree in the overthrowing, but I would say that is more not throwing with anticipation. That's why I want Cam to improve in all those areas. (Footwork, throwing with anticipation, pocket awareness, and looking off defenders) I see gunslinging as trying to make the big throw, in spite of two or three guys draping a receiver. Every QB tries that every once in a while, but it's a habit for gunslingers. I haven't seen Cam throw that way on a consistent basis, especially in the last few games.

I'm telling yall, just give me the right coach who is fundamentally sound, desiring to see Cam become as accurate as possible, and the surgeon will appear. (Along with his athletic ability, which I think is best used as a trump card personally)

[Marguide]

Again, I agree that they have to be careful not to overcoach Cam, but at the same time, Matthias is right that we shouldn't just throw him into the gunslinger box and never expect him to be anything else.

Cam appears to be highly coachable. With the right person giving him the right guidance, there is no reason to put a limit on what he can do.

When it comes to things like footwork, it should eventually become muscle memory. He just needs the reps and reminders, and the offseason is the best time to work on it.

[rayzor]

Again, I agree that they have to be careful not to overcoach Cam, but at the same time, Matthias is right that we shouldn't just throw him into the gunslinger box and never expect him to be anything else.

Cam appears to be highly coachable. With the right person giving him the right guidance, there is no reason to put a limit on what he can do.

When it comes to things like footwork, it should eventually become muscle memory. He just needs the reps and reminders, and the offseason is the best time to work on it.

to that i would say, hat all has been happening already. he's been getting the needed coaching and progressing just like he needs to be.

cam won't be some surgical strike guy, nor does he need to be to be among the very best the game has ever seen. he's just at the beginning of his career and contrary to what some have said, his problem hasn't been his mechanics, it's been a shoddy oline, bad playcalling, and bad decision making, all of which got much better towards the end of the year.

he'll refine what he does, but he shouldn't be expected to be a surgeon. thats not who he is, not what he'll become, and not what he needs to be. all that matters is his ability to produce which will improve over time with little more than is being done now.

[Matthias]

I don't think there is any question (definitely if you're asking me) that this coaching sabotaged Cam's development more than they helped. Most of Cam's development as a passer, I would say was self taught. I also give credit to Weinke, DA, and other guys Cam personally sought out to his development. However when it comes to this staff, they did little to nothing to help him. First of all, Rivera is mainly a defensive coach. Nothing he has ever said tells me he knows how to develop a QB. We already know Chud went crazy this year with the offense. So most of Cam's development was self taught and self sought.

Like I said before, Cam mostly played the game of football on his talent alone. So he was raw coming out of college. (Which is why many, including myself, questioned whether or not he could play in this league) Yet even with all that, he still put up 30 tds to 7 ints playing in the SEC. That says a whole lot about the kind of throws he does. They aren't habitually high risk, high reward throws. I'm telling yall again, this cat has a surgical degree in him! It just needs to be nutured. He needs instruction for the first time in his career, someone to help him master the basics of quarterbacking. Look at Luck and all his interceptions, is he a gunslinger? Luck probably threw more high risk balls than Cam his rookie year.

To tell you the truth, a guy like Aaron Rodgers throw a lot of home run balls. Yet the biggest difference between him and a gunslinger, is his throws are 90% accurate to the T. I see Cam being like that. Yet we need the coaching who believes he can develop in that area. Not just see him as a strong arm, high risk/reward passer, who can run.

[SIGCHI222]

I said months ago that Weinke should be contacted to see how much Bolletteri is paying him.

[CRA]

Delhomme was fine until his Tommy John surgery. After that, his arm strength got worse with each passing year. It was Delhomme's arm strength that did him in, but I would agree that Delhomme was a gambler.

Look at Newton's 2010 season with Auburn. In the SEC, he threw 30 tds to just 7 ints. Would you say that is gun slinging stats? Now Peyton in his rookie year (throwing to one of the best receivers in the history of the game), threw for a record 28 ints. Is Peyton a gun slinger? I see that same kind of fire in Newton's eyes to be the best QB in the game, to be an accurate passer. (I remember in an interview with Rachel Nichols, he commented on how his dad told him the correct way of holding the football was up high, but he later find out his dad didn't know what he was talking about. ^_^ So even in that piece, I see Cam's desire to be a fundamentally sound QB)

Again a 30 td/7 ints ratio are surgeon QB type numbers. I want to see that in Cam for the majority of his career, and we will see that with the right coaching. Coaches who desire to see the best out of Cam, and not just see a physical rushing threat of a passer.

I think you have to look at more than just stats....

at Auburn Cam did often play playground ball and slung it....his great numbers where in large part bc teams couldn't handle the mismatch on the ground he presented and that set his WRs up. Maybe big play is more accurate than gunslinger.....but Newton has always been about the big knockout.

[CRA]

I don't think there is any question (definitely if you're asking me) that this coaching sabotaged Cam's development more than they helped. Most of Cam's development as a passer, I would say was self taught. I also give credit to Weinke, DA, and other guys Cam personally sought out to his development. However when it comes to this staff, they did little to nothing to help him. First of all, Rivera is mainly a defensive coach. Nothing he has ever said tells me he knows how to develop a QB. We already know Chud went crazy this year with the offense. So most of Cam's development was self taught and self sought.

Like I said before, Cam mostly played the game of football on his talent alone. So he was raw coming out of college. (Which is why many, including myself, questioned whether or not he could play in this league) Yet even with all that, he still put up 30 tds to 7 ints playing in the SEC. That says a whole lot about the kind of throws he does. They aren't habitually high risk, high reward throws. I'm telling yall again, this cat has a surgical degree in him! It just needs to be nutured. He needs instruction for the first time in his career, someone to help him master the basics of quarterbacking. Look at Luck and all his interceptions, is he a gunslinger? Luck probably threw more high risk balls than Cam his rookie year.

To tell you the truth, a guy like Aaron Rodgers throw a lot of home run balls. Yet the biggest difference between him and a gunslinger, is his throws are 90% accurate to the T. I see Cam being like that. Yet we need the coaching who believes he can develop in that area. Not just see him as a strong arm, high risk/reward passer, who can run.

I think Rivera does a good job managing Cam the person.....and in Cam's case I think that is big.

[SIGCHI222]

I think Rivera does a good job managing Cam the person.....and in Cam's case I think that is big.

I liked that comment...I think you are prolly dead on.