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That's not a negative but reality. Jags have been crap for years and also in a slightly tougher division where the Bucs have been cake walking into the playoffs since Brady got there. 8 wins isn't a big jump from 5. It just feels that way since the team has been run so poorly for so long that mediocre is somehow celebrated as dominance.

why are you cherry picking stats? Thats a bit odd.......and telling

What station is he on?

Ridiculous take from someone who never watched our offense consistently. Rivera and Shula held Cam back as a passer, he never relied on his athleticism.

I think you duplicated Shough's Rams game on his Bucs one. He was 13/20 144 with an INT but had 55 rushing TDs and a 2 scores. They won this game with him playing like that. It's hard to listen to him carrying a team of scrubs when you see data like that...

There are several posters that only post negative at all times. 8 wins is a big jump from 5 and we still have 2 games. Jaguars have a much more talented roster than us and have underachieved for years.

All of this noise is just setting us up to lose Week 18 and proclaim life's not fair. If there's one thing I know in my 30+ years of watching the Hornets and Panthers, is that the bad guy always wins in the end. A team can be falling apart internally but we will still lose to them. A team's fanbase can be extra shitty and cocky and they will just win anyway. It always happens

Well even if we took diverging paths getting there...our overall assessment of Shough is the same (bolded) lol so I guess that's what matters. What you call "playing at a level that looks like a veteran starter" is the same thing I'm referencing when I talk about his poise. Although I still wonder how truly "bad" of a team the Saints are. Their defense is middle-of-the-road, and their offense does have some good pieces (Olave, Juwan Johnson) outside of running back which is the position most everyone agrees is relatively plug-and-play. I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the majority of NFL team's o-lines lol but I'm assuming Saints are not great there, although Shough's pressure % seems to have been quite low (and steadily improving) over the last four weeks (20 -> 16.7 -> 15.0 -> 13.0) so maybe they've been playing better as of late, or perhaps Shough himself deserves credit for that. Some of the language I'm hearing about Shough, including talking about how he's way above league average in several categories, makes it sound like Shough is having a rookie season on par with like a CJ Stroud who established himself as basically a Top 5-10 QB his rookie season. Maybe that's on me though, I don't mean to attribute anything to you that I'm sure you don't agree with.

Since your being selective (and somewhat deceptive) with your comparisons, I'll throw this up so we can compare apples to apples. Both Young and Shough have played against the Rams. Young went: 15/20 (75%) for 191 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs with a 147.1 QB rating Shough went: 15/24 (62.5%) for 176 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT with a 81.2 QB rating Both Young and Shough have played against the Buccs. Young went: 21/32 (65%) for 206 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs with a 102.5 QB rating Shough went: 13/20 (65%) for 176 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT with a 65.4 QB rating Both Young and Shough have played against the Falcons. Young went: 31/45 (75%) for 448 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs with a 123.2 rating Shough went: 30/43 (69.7%) for 243 yards, 0TD, 1 INT with a 74 QB rating Seriously, in what world is Shough a better QB.

Freddie? For this game? Seriously? I don’t get it. Hope we get the best version of Freddie tonight.

Cam was very reliant on being one of the best athletes on the field. His athleticism was a huge part of his success. Favre took a beating, sure, but he relied on his arm. Did Cam evolve enough as a passer for that to be his go to rather than his athleticism? Cam’s rookie season was his only above 4k and his MVP was the only season above 30 passing TDs. Josh Allen plays in a similar way, but he has been far more prolific as a passer and should age pretty well if his athleticism starts to wane. I’m not sure how Cam would have faired had his athleticism started to regress.

Todd Bowles IS John Fox, essentially. You give him a talented team and he'll manage to not completely screw it up - and may even do well. But the moment his teams face any amount of adversity it all falls apart.

They oughta be more pissed about Coen lol bowles is old school with an aging defense and has lost two OCs …. The fan base always wants the shiny toy.

Please don't tell me you just averaged the QB ratings of all of Shough's starts to declare his QB rating as better I hope you don't actually believe that's how it works. Otherwise please show your math on Shough's QB rating as a starter. Thanks for including Shough's 2.6 more Rushing YPG in this comparison, really doesn't feel at all like you're desperately grasping for as many straws as you can here. The truth is, it takes a statistical bottom-tier starting QB like Bryce Young to make Shough look simply OK by comparison. And that bottom-tier starting QB still, by your own admission, puts up more points for his offense than Shough. You're framing this as damning for Bryce, but in reality the fact that him and Bryce are so neck-and-neck is shining Shough in a very poor light. Yes Shough is a rookie and Young is a 3rd year starter, which is why I circle back to my position of Shough having a "pretty solid, encouraging rookie season" whereas you're fanboying over him. Never mind that Shough is 2 years older than Bryce though. Normally yes a QB's experience in the league is invaluable...but Bryce is kind of a unique situation considering the biggest complaint with him is he is too physically limited to succeed in the league. Do we think a QB can overcome severe physical limitations simply with experience? Also I remember wayyyy back (/s) when we cared so much about DJ Johnson being an older rookie and our standard for them being that they're more NFL-ready and able to contribute sooner rather than later. But now all of a sudden Shough is just a poor little 26-year-old rookie on an awful team. Seriously...the way you frame everything around Shough is straight out of a fanfic. Constantly referencing with tears in your eyes how he's succeeding against all odds on such an awful team. Meanwhile the Saints' D is 14th in PPG and their offense (led by Shough) is 29th in PPG. Telling me how the Saints managed a win on Shough's shoulders against the Jets last week who put up...*checks notes*...6 points against the Saints' D. Yes god bless the savior Shough who willed his team to victory against those juggernauts led by Brady Cook. Never mind how Taysom Hill threw as many touchdowns in 1 passing attempt as Shough did in 49 passing attempts. Yikes.

Who's gonna drop the gloves? I can't think of a single player on this team that can fight. Period. Much less get the best of an opposing player. Please.

as a starter, Shough is better this year in all the aspects I shared with you. Facts. You disputed nothing I said because I’m talking starts and my numbers are right

Positive? Absolutely. Getting it twisted? Lol nope. Rhule had two 5 win seasons so 5 wins can be done by people not even qualified to be in thr NFL if that helps to put it all into perspective? Ohh and the other Bucs OC already is at 10 wins in his first year HC.

I brought up games played because of how few he’s played so you further my point with the “backup” games. Ok yards go up from 190ish to 237 average, still not some amazing average. They’re pretty pass heavy. Don't get me wrong he’s had a good rookie season, especially for a 2nd round pick. That doesn’t mean he should be anywhere near OROY discussions.

They always do it from a running set too. And I guarantee it’s someone in the booth spotting it and calling it down.

I put actual muners up showing how CRA is totally wrong with his claim that Shough leads Young. Not only did I include their stats, but I included every QB around them. Not sure how that is not being rational.

Sonny Styles is the way.

every post you make, you start moving the goal posts. I talk about games as a starter. You just rant about season totals. I show where he is better as a starter....you demand where it shows he is better at EVERY category lol.

I SHOWEDE you my stats. Now show me your stats showing where Shough leads in EVERY catagory.

This....I noticed the same thing. Its very specific and situational with the throws he's making. Its working but it just has so much training wheels vibes behind it. Its not a coincidence it's the same go route throw in single high coverage.

Waiting for teams to adjust. Until they do, keep doing it. I like throwing it over their heads. When they do adjust to defend that maybe the near field defense loosens up.