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Freddie? For this game? Seriously? I don’t get it. Hope we get the best version of Freddie tonight.

Cam was very reliant on being one of the best athletes on the field. His athleticism was a huge part of his success. Favre took a beating, sure, but he relied on his arm. Did Cam evolve enough as a passer for that to be his go to rather than his athleticism? Cam’s rookie season was his only above 4k and his MVP was the only season above 30 passing TDs. Josh Allen plays in a similar way, but he has been far more prolific as a passer and should age pretty well if his athleticism starts to wane. I’m not sure how Cam would have faired had his athleticism started to regress.

Todd Bowles IS John Fox, essentially. You give him a talented team and he'll manage to not completely screw it up - and may even do well. But the moment his teams face any amount of adversity it all falls apart.

They oughta be more pissed about Coen lol bowles is old school with an aging defense and has lost two OCs …. The fan base always wants the shiny toy.

Please don't tell me you just averaged the QB ratings of all of Shough's starts to declare his QB rating as better I hope you don't actually believe that's how it works. Otherwise please show your math on Shough's QB rating as a starter. Thanks for including Shough's 2.6 more Rushing YPG in this comparison, really doesn't feel at all like you're desperately grasping for as many straws as you can here. The truth is, it takes a statistical bottom-tier starting QB like Bryce Young to make Shough look simply OK by comparison. And that bottom-tier starting QB still, by your own admission, puts up more points for his offense than Shough. You're framing this as damning for Bryce, but in reality the fact that him and Bryce are so neck-and-neck is shining Shough in a very poor light. Yes Shough is a rookie and Young is a 3rd year starter, which is why I circle back to my position of Shough having a "pretty solid, encouraging rookie season" whereas you're fanboying over him. Never mind that Shough is 2 years older than Bryce though. Normally yes a QB's experience in the league is invaluable...but Bryce is kind of a unique situation considering the biggest complaint with him is he is too physically limited to succeed in the league. Do we think a QB can overcome severe physical limitations simply with experience? Also I remember wayyyy back (/s) when we cared so much about DJ Johnson being an older rookie and our standard for them being that they're more NFL-ready and able to contribute sooner rather than later. But now all of a sudden Shough is just a poor little 26-year-old rookie on an awful team. Seriously...the way you frame everything around Shough is straight out of a fanfic. Constantly referencing with tears in your eyes how he's succeeding against all odds on such an awful team. Meanwhile the Saints' D is 14th in PPG and their offense (led by Shough) is 29th in PPG. Telling me how the Saints managed a win on Shough's shoulders against the Jets last week who put up...*checks notes*...6 points against the Saints' D. Yes god bless the savior Shough who willed his team to victory against those juggernauts led by Brady Cook. Never mind how Taysom Hill threw as many touchdowns in 1 passing attempt as Shough did in 49 passing attempts. Yikes.

Who's gonna drop the gloves? I can't think of a single player on this team that can fight. Period. Much less get the best of an opposing player. Please.

as a starter, Shough is better this year in all the aspects I shared with you. Facts. You disputed nothing I said because I’m talking starts and my numbers are right

Positive? Absolutely. Getting it twisted? Lol nope. Rhule had two 5 win seasons so 5 wins can be done by people not even qualified to be in thr NFL if that helps to put it all into perspective? Ohh and the other Bucs OC already is at 10 wins in his first year HC.

I brought up games played because of how few he’s played so you further my point with the “backup” games. Ok yards go up from 190ish to 237 average, still not some amazing average. They’re pretty pass heavy. Don't get me wrong he’s had a good rookie season, especially for a 2nd round pick. That doesn’t mean he should be anywhere near OROY discussions.

They always do it from a running set too. And I guarantee it’s someone in the booth spotting it and calling it down.

I put actual muners up showing how CRA is totally wrong with his claim that Shough leads Young. Not only did I include their stats, but I included every QB around them. Not sure how that is not being rational.

Sonny Styles is the way.

every post you make, you start moving the goal posts. I talk about games as a starter. You just rant about season totals. I show where he is better as a starter....you demand where it shows he is better at EVERY category lol.

I SHOWEDE you my stats. Now show me your stats showing where Shough leads in EVERY catagory.

This....I noticed the same thing. Its very specific and situational with the throws he's making. Its working but it just has so much training wheels vibes behind it. Its not a coincidence it's the same go route throw in single high coverage.

Waiting for teams to adjust. Until they do, keep doing it. I like throwing it over their heads. When they do adjust to defend that maybe the near field defense loosens up.

I'd edited to be more clear where he was ahead of league average, but realize it was easily missed, sorry. I do hope he falls off a cliff production wise because if he actually continues at this pace it's highly likely the TDs come and then he'll be a real problem. Anyway, to the stats... Shough is substantially better than the average in completion percentage, YPG, and INT% (68% vs 64.4% and 237 vs 215 and 1.7 vs 2.2). He is pretty close to the average in Y/A (7.14 vs 7.1) and rating (91.63 vs 91.8). He is a bit below the average in TDs per game (1.3 vs ~1.5, which is hard to average exactly due to the number of players that are part of this stat), QBR (51.54 vs 54.7) and quite a bit below in TD% (3% vs 4.7%). In advanced stats, he's above the league average in intended air yards/attempt (8.1 v 7.7) and on target % (76.8 vs 74.6), while barely below is in bad throw % (16.1 vs 16.0). This jives with what I've seen - decent young player, playing at a level that looks like a veteran starter, on a bad team. I've always said (and this is true of Bryce too, I even mentioned it this year) that I am less concerned with 30+ yard bombs than consistency at 15+ yards, because you need to be able to threaten past the sticks. Shough is doing that. Vs us in week 15 he had ~one third of his passes 15ish or more yards and he was money on them, and that wasn't really an exception, he has had some nice throws outside of that. All that said, dude is just super new to the league, and once film gets out, if he does have limitations they will be exploited. No way he can get OROTY. And thanks for the kind words - I am prone to hyperbole at times, but I'm also just impressed by Shough. We'll see if he can keep it up (I hope not, unless the Saints randomly trade him lol)

To be fair, going from 2 wins, to 5 wins, to 8 wins at least is a pretty big positive no matter how insufferably miserable a select handful in this group want to make everything.

Yeah Moore is definitely going to be a problem. I remember he was the favorite for our job at one point in time.

I had that thought when I saw what Cousins got from him. Not sure it is a great idea but was definitely intrigued.

There’s very specific circumstances where the panthers will throw “deep” and one of them is close game in the late third/fourth where the defense is playing run they also only like to do it from about the opponent 30-20 yard line because Bryce doesn’t have to worry about touch on those throws. Hes just chucking it as far as he can and hoping for the best before anyone mentions the Coker throw which was the best throw of his life, they tried a sideline go route to tet earlier in the game that was uncatchable out of bounds. If it hadn’t been, Bryce didn’t see the safety and tet would have been murdered. they only want him throwing deep against single safety once the run has been established.

True. I think the Saints have done one thing for sure, they look to of hit on the coach. You see smart coaching in game. You see smart management of scenarios.

Also, one model of bringing a rooking QB along is sit them to start the year. Other models are sit the whole year, two years, etc. Let them get their feet wet and adjust to being a pro so it isn’t so big for them. Frank wanted to sit Bryce, Tepper made him play him. Pretty sure. And pretty sure Frank was right.

Saints were smart with Shough too letting him play at the best part of their schedule. LAR was rough but then it was CAR, ATL, MIA, TB, NYJ, with TEN, and ATL left. I'll give it to them, those are some ideal defenses to let your rookie get comfortable on (LAR excluded).