For my own amusement....

[AceBoogie]

Absolute hell no to anyone named Gruden (or Ryan, for that matter).

Gruden would change the entire offensive system to a West Coast Offense which, since we spent the entire offseason retooling with Coryell type receivers, would force us to have to remake our receiving corps all over again.

Add in that Gruden became less and less effective as a coach during his time in Tampa. By the time he was done his players hated him so much they told the Tampa brass they wouldn't play for him anymore. that's why he was fired.

People who watch Gruden gab on Monday Night Football might like him, but people who've actually looked at his record know to steer clear.

Gruden never had a QB in Tampa, still has one more super bowl than we have. Before you say it was Tony Dungy's team, don't forget he played against his former team.

[Jeremy Igo]

FYI.... YGFH gets very affectionate when drunk.

[carolina-chuck]

What is Cam supposed to say? He doesn't like Shula to the media? Cam isn't RG3.

If Rivera continues to be suck and be a puss with Shula, give me this after the season:

#KnowsHowToCoachARealQB

[Mr. Scot]

Gruden never had a QB in Tampa, still has one more super bowl than we have. Before you say it was Tony Dungy's team, don't forget he played against his former team.

And as such, knew them very well.

Gruden never had a QB in Tampa? That's actually true, because the supposed 'QB guru' never developed one. He just kept swapping them out and hoping for a miracle.

In point of fact, he never actually developed a QB anywhere. His rep as a QB guru stems solely from his ESPN show. It sure as heck isn't from his track record as a coach. The only quarterbacks that were any good under his coaching tenure were developed by somebody else.

Why the heck would I hand Cam's future over to a guy like that?

Gruden is easily the most overrated coaching prospect out there.

[Jeremy Igo]

Gruden had Brad Johnson his Supebowl year. A guy he didn't have to develop and who came ready to manage an offense without much coaching.

 

Tampa's Superbowl was more Tony Dungy and Monte Kiffin than Jon Gruden.

 

Evidence is how quickly Gruden took Dungy's team to the basement. (1 season)

[rayzor]

biggest argument against ramsdell that i keep on seeing is he hasn't taken on the role as an offensive coordinator before.

 

but we did hire a HC without HC experience and a GM without GM experience and we regularly draft professional players without professional experience.

 

point is, we hire them because of the degree of excellence they have had in their other responsibilities and because we think they have all the tools necessary to succeed. many of the things they did can contribute to their ability to grasp what they need to succeed at a higher level.

 

imo, that's ramsdell. it's not that he's been a great position coach for every position he's coached, he's been surrounded by amazing talent on the coaching level. look at the offenses he's been a part of and the offensive minds he's been able to work with for many years.

 

does being a successful position coach guarantee that he will be a successful OC? nope, but that didn't stop us from hiring rivera or gettleman.

[Happy Panther]

It's difficult to judge OC talent. But our offense just seems so bland sometimes. One thing that I wish we would do more of is misdirection plays. I realize you can't do it so often.

[Mr. Scot]

biggest argument against ramsdell that i keep on seeing is he hasn't taken on the role as an offensive coordinator before.

but we did hire a HC without HC experience and a GM without GM experience and we regularly draft professional players without professional experience.

point is, we hire them because of the degree of excellence they have had in their other responsibilities and because we think they have all the tools necessary to succeed. many of the things they did can contribute to their ability to grasp what they need to succeed at a higher level.

imo, that's ramsdell. it's not that he's been a great position coach for every position he's coached, he's been surrounded by amazing talent on the coaching level. look at the offenses he's been a part of and the offensive minds he's been able to work with for many years.

does being a successful position coach guarantee that he will be a successful OC? nope, but that didn't stop us from hiring rivera or gettleman.

All correct.

His having coached multiple positions on offense does help.

[AceBoogie]

Gruden had Brad Johnson his Supebowl year. A guy he didn't have to develop and who came ready to manage an offense without much coaching.

Tampa's Superbowl was more Tony Dungy and Monte Kiffin than Jon Gruden.

Evidence is how quickly Gruden took Dungy's team to the basement. (1 season)

Then you could say The raiders who also made the Super Bowl was more Gruden, and you could say last year was more Hurney. Just because you have the players in place doesn't mean you know what to do with those players. Dungy had Peyton Manning for over a decade and only managed one Super Bowl.

[AceBoogie]

And as such, knew them very well.

Gruden never had a QB in Tampa? That's actually true, because the supposed 'QB guru' never developed one. He just kept swapping them out and hoping for a miracle.

In point of fact, he never actually developed a QB anywhere. His rep as a QB guru stems solely from his ESPN show. It sure as heck isn't from his track record as a coach. The only quarterbacks that were any good under his coaching tenure were developed by somebody else.

Why the heck would I hand Cam's future over to a guy like that?

Gruden is easily the most overrated coaching prospect out there.

I think you're being a little hard on Gruden. I think it's time away from football has only helped him.

[Mr. Scot]

I think you're being a little hard on Gruden. I think it's time away from football has only helped him.

It's helped his image. I sincerely doubt it's made him a better coach.

[thefuzz]

The thing that makes me pause about Ramsdell is that if you look at his resume', the only thing he's ever done is position coaching.  He's never been a coordinator, so this would be new to him.

 

On the flipside, he's coached every position group on offense except O-Line at one point or another, and his biggest success has been as a quarterbacks coach.  Generally speaking, the QB Coach is the first guy you look at as a potential OC.

 

Mind you, with us that's actually Ken Dorsey.  Ramsdell is officially a 'senior offensive assistant'.  And while I could conceivably ponder a scenario where Dorsey gets the OC job and Ramsdell backfills, that's extremely hard to imagine because Dorsey's only been a pro coach of any kind for 2 years.  Ramsdell has been coaching in some capacity or another since 1972.

 

For those thinking Proehl could take the job, again it's possible but Proehl hasn't been an NFL coach much longer than Dorsey has.  Yes he was a longtime player, but that's still a stretch.

 

I sincerely doubt Shula gets bumped, but if he does and the replacement is on the staff I gotta think it's either Ramsdell or Jim Skipper.  Probably Ramsdell.

 

(and quick FYI guys.  Our current offense is a Coryell)

 

We do run a Coryell, but not to it's fullest extent.  Unfortunately.

 

 

One thing that people forget, especially when talking about Coryell's best OC is Norv loved to run the football as much if not more than pass.  He had a couple of backs named Emmitt Smith, and Ladainian Tomlinson.  We don't have the offensive line to have a successful downhill runner like them, not the line to hold up in pass pro to take advantage of all the Coryell System has to offer.

 

 

I don't have much, if any faith in Shula, but this offense needs another draft and a couple big contracts off it's books before it can get to where it needs to be.

[CharlottePanther]

Joe Philbin after Miami fires him. /thread

[Mr. Scot]

We do run a Coryell, but not to it's fullest extent. Unfortunately.

One thing that people forget, especially when talking about Coryell's best OC is Norv loved to run the football as much if not more than pass. He had a couple of backs named Emmitt Smith, and Ladainian Tomlinson. We don't have the offensive line to have a successful downhill runner like them, not the line to hold up in pass pro to take advantage of all the Coryell System has to offer.

I don't have much, if any faith in Shula, but this offense needs another draft and a couple big contracts off it's books before it can get to where it needs to be.

It's definitely far from ideal right now.

Part of me wonders whether Shula would be more comfortable running an Earhardt-Perkins type system rather than a pure Coryell.