Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

More RB talk ( Tolbert Time)

CRA

By CRA,
in Carolina Panthers

Recommended Posts

CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted

Look, the OL has improved some....they still aren't opening huge holes. But they do occasssionally open ones they never did earlier. There were runs by 28 yesterday where he just makes his own...that a lesser back simply does nothing with. They would be 1 yarders or losses.

Brings me to my issue.

Mike Tolbert. Tolbert has looked a shell of himself all season. He can't run. Tolbert like Williams needs to move down the depth chart. He is a 30 yr old RB. He has been bad all year. OL isn't helping him just like it wouldn't help 34 if he came back. 30 yr old runners are 30 yr old runners.

Tolbert is a RB. He is being used as one so let's not start talking about his FB label. He had 7 carries yesterday and averaged 1 yard.

Fozzy needs reps. Tolbert is the new DWill.

Run will be huge this week. Stewart and Fozzy don't need these dudes wasting snaps. As we saw last year, running is harder on the postseason. Rivera needs to get it right.

Gettlemen was right. We actually do have answers. Rivera needs to get to them quicker.

And I am fine with Tolbert being used as a FB. That never happens though. Can't remember last time he was a lead blocker for a RB. Even when he is it tends to clog whatever small hole a RB could slide through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
imminent rogaine Experienced

imminent rogaine

Posted
Posted

I think Fozzy is here long-term. He looks impressive when he gets in, he is young, he is cheap. I agree he should be in the rotation.

 

I think the issue with Tolbert is the way he is used. He is not a great between the tackles RB. Because of his size, people want to run him up the gut. This makes sense if you are on the goal line or if you need a yard or two - that's all he's going to get you.  He is most effective on screens and dump offs. We've seen the pain he delivers if he gets a few steps to get his motor going. If I am OC, I am using him more like Sproles and less like Alstott.

 

edit: and I've actually been impressed by his blocking since he has come back. Its certainly better than the alternative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Think you've misjudged him. His first game back was NO and since then our running and passing game have both improved. He's great as an extra blocker and as he's put on weight he's less useful making yards and much better as a lead blocker.

If he never lead blocks how is he much better at it?

I'm fine with him as a pure pass protector. But he used to spell Stewart....and Tolbert can't run anymore. Too inconsistant. Rarely a positive result. Williams-like results pre and post OL change.

Like I said, I am fine with him in pass scenarios however He is currently spelling 28 as simply our 2nd RB optoon and his runs are a waste when we have Fozzy....who has done nothing but proven every opportunity he deserves more touches

Tolbert brings positive. Staff again seems to struggle with player management. Asking guys to do X that should do Y and guys that can do X watch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AviationMX Contributor

AviationMX

Posted
Posted

Look, the OL has improved some....they still aren't opening huge holes. But they do occasssionally open ones they never did earlier. There were runs by 28 yesterday where he just makes his own...that a lesser back simply does nothing with. They would be 1 yarders or losses.

Brings me to my issue.

Mike Tolbert. Tolbert has looked a shell of himself all season. He can't run. Tolbert like Williams needs to move down the depth chart. He is a 30 yr old RB. He has been bad all year. OL isn't helping him just like it wouldn't help 34 if he came back. 30 yr old runners are 30 yr old runners.

Tolbert is a RB. He is being used as one so let's not start talking about his FB label. He had 7 carries yesterday and averaged 1 yard.

Fozzy needs reps. Tolbert is the new DWill.

Run will be huge this week. Stewart and Fozzy don't need these dudes wasting snaps. As we saw last year, running is harder on the postseason. Rivera needs to get it right.

Gettlemen was right. We actually do have answers. Rivera needs to get to them quicker.

And I am fine with Tolbert being used as a FB. That never happens though. Can't remember last time he was a lead blocker for a RB. Even when he is it tends to clog whatever small hole a RB could slide through.

 

as far as the Oline "improving some" I'm not going to look it up but aren't the Panthers like 7 or 8 in average rushing yards...also don't pick on TugBert...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

Posted
Posted

Mike Tolbert. Tolbert has looked a shell of himself all season. He can't run. Tolbert like Williams needs to move down the depth chart. He is a 30 yr old RB. He has been bad all year. OL isn't helping him just like it wouldn't help 34 if he came back. 30 yr old runners are 30 yr old runners.

 

 

I am concerned that they are giving him plays where he follows pulling linemen but has to run parallel to the OL.  Tolbert is not a "change direction" back, so don't ask him to run any way except where his shoulders are parallel with the LOS. 

 

However, Tolbert is a veteran, very good at picking up blitzes.  But, I agree, the production is not there.

 

How much can a short RB who is over weight actually endure in the NFL?   Has it caught up to him?  I think he may simply be rusty due to the injury, but he won't make the roster playing like he is now in 2015.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • MHS831
      Explicating the Panthers' Defensiveness

      By MHS831 · Posted

      It is time to take a look at the defense.  Without further ado do.... Edge (OLB):  I think we overpaid for Jaelan Phillips, but he is constant pressure with 73 pressures in 2025, ranking 9th in the NFL.  In all, he was the 20th (of 111) rated pass rushing edge in 2025 according to PFF, putting him in the top 20% in the nfl.  With a pair of solid ILBs beside him and if we can get Wharton going, I think the sum of the parts will make him better than he was in Philly.  Furthermore, with second-year pro Princely Umanmielen behind him, I expect him to grow with the tutoring and competition. On the other side, the duo of Nick Scourton and Patrick Jones II is strong, in my view.  Scourton generated 34 total pressures as a pass rusher. That total included 8 sacks, 23 hurries, 3 hits. Against the run, he recorded 28 solo tackles. For a rookie, second round, edge, that is great.  He also forced 1 fumble on the season. Jones was decent in 2025 in just 131 snaps, but he is solid veteran depth.   We seem to lack the elite pass rusher, but this rotational unit will be a big upgrade over last season.  Expect Scourton and Princely to show improvement. While it is unlikely that we add more to edge this draft, you can never have too many pass rushers (well, you can--two sophomores and two veterans is a good mix). Would the Panthers take an edge if one was sitting there? Absolutely. Defensive End:  Derrick Brown is a stud.  I did not notice how dominant he became as a pass rusher.  His PFF pass-rush grade of 72.0 ranked 23rd among 134 qualified interior defensive linemans. His run-defense grade of 66.3 ranked 22nd at the position. He generated 35 total pressures as a pass rusher. That total included 6 sacks, 23 hurries, 6 hits. On the other side:  What the hell?  Tershawn Wharton earned a 40.8 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 127th among 134 qualified interior defensive linemans. His PFF pass-rush grade of 57.0 ranked 95th among 134 qualified interior defensive linemen. His run-defense grade of 34.8 ranked 125th at the position. However, Wharton needs to be situational and we really need a few DEs who can plug and pressure.  LaBryan Ray is an interior defensive lineman for the Carolina Panthers who earned a 45.7 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season.  You cannot tell me that we are not going to add a DE.  In my view, this is a HUGE need that we have not adequately addressed.  There were only 3 DEs in the NFL who played more snaps that Derrick Brown.  We have to give him more blows during the game.  So After Brown, we have 2 other players who need to improve a lot to reach mediocre. Nose Tackle:  Of course, a NT might move out some to help stuff the run at DE opposite Brown, and stats do not always reflect on a NT's actual value.  Bobby Brown III earned a 54.1 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 80th among 134 qualified interior defensive linemen.  His PFF pass-rush grade of 51.1 ranked 126th among 134 qualified interior defensive linemans. His run-defense grade of 57.8 ranked 51st at the position.   Behind him, Cam'Ron Jackson is an  earned a 45.5 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season.   The defensive line is weak, based on 2025 performance rankings in PFF.  After DBrown, they pretty much suck.  These are the guys our ILBs will be counting on. Inside Linebacker:  Devin Lloyd earned a 89.1 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 3rd among 88 qualified linebackers. His PFF coverage grade of 81.1 ranked 3rd among 88 qualified linebackers. His run-defense grade of 83.2 ranked 11th at the position. His pass-rush grade of 82.2 ranked 5th among qualified linebackers.  He's good.  At the moment, beside him is Trevin Wallace  who earned a 55.9 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 57th among 88 qualified linebackers. His PFF coverage grade of 64.5 ranked 25th among 88 qualified linebackers. His run-defense grade of 42.3 ranked 85th at the position. His pass-rush grade of 64.2 ranked 45th among qualified linebackers.  Wallace was best as a coverage LB, and based on my memory, I am not sure he was in the top third, but if PFF says so...however, he was nearly last vs. the run.  We need better to play beside Lloyd.  Bam Morris-Scott earned a 37.6 overall PFF defensive grade. To put that in perspective, I was rated by PFF at 32.3 on my couch.   Cherilus Claudin is the third best ILB on the roster right now. He earned a 59.2 overall PFF defensive grade in just over 200 snaps.  Having lost Rozeboom, the Panthers are very thin behind Lloyd.  Look for a starting-caliber ILB in the draft.  Wallace is not the guy, but he is decent depth. Nickel CB:  Chau Smith-Wade  earned a 57.0 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 79th among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His PFF coverage grade of 57.2 ranked 79th among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His run-defense grade of 55.4 ranked 77th at the position.  For a nickel, he played a lot--garnering over 600 snaps.  Corey Thornton was a pleasant surprise, until he was injured.  However, in just 127 snaps, he was very good, earning a 68.5 overall PFF defensive grade.  I think he can play outside in a pinch, but nickel might be his gig.  I am not sold that Nickel is in good hands, but Thornton is promising.  Smith-Wade is average, and with the experience he has accumulated, we are probably not prioritizing Nickel, but there are some good nickels in the draft. Cornerback:  Michael Jackson should have been in the pro bowl.  He earned a 79.1 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 4th among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His PFF coverage grade of 80.9 ranked 3rd among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His run-defense grade of 67.2 ranked 36th at the position. He recorded 4 interceptions on the season. Jackson broke up 9 passes in coverage. He allowed a 72.9 passer rating when targeted by opposing quarterbacks --SOLID!!  Our second-best CB, Jaycee Horn, was in the pro bowl.  He earned a 57.8 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 76th among 114 qualified corner.backs. His PFF coverage grade of 61.6 ranked 61st among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His run-defense grade of 50.5 ranked 87th at the position.  He recorded 5 interceptions on the season.  Our CBs had NINE interceptions in 2025.  It is doubtful they duplicate that figure, but Jackson was our best CB.   We are thin at CB, but the two we put out there are solid.  Nickel, at this time, is "meh," but both are developing and should improve.  A great draft for Nickel.  The Panthers will add a CB somehow. Safety:  For now, Trevon Moehrig is as advertised--above average vs. the run, below average in coverage, making him average. He earned a 64.3 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 50th among 98 qualified safeties. His PFF coverage grade of 55.3 ranked 64th among 98 qualified safeties. His run-defense grade of 73.5 ranked 37th at the position.  Lathan Ransom got some valuable experience in 2025, getting in on 330 plays or so.  He earned a 62.9 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 56th among 98 qualified safeties.  (Average, not bad for a day 3 rookie) His PFF coverage grade of 55.8 ranked 63rd among 98 qualified safeties. His run-defense grade of 85.1 ranked 4th at the position.  A pure strong safety, if you ask me.  Nick Scott  earned a 67.8 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 36th among 98 qualified safeties. His PFF coverage grade of 67.3 ranked 31st among 98 qualified safeties. His run-defense grade of 69.3 ranked 56th at the position.  Expect a draft pick at FS.  Demani Richardson is a safety for the Carolina Panthers who earned a 71.5 overall PFF defensive grade n 29 plays.  Nothing to see here.  Isaiah Simmons is probably more special teams than defensive player.   Overall:  We are thin on defense.  No real depth at CB, S, and DE/NT.  However, we have 5 starters who are pro bowl level players (D. Brown, Lloyd, Jackson, Horn, and Phillips--and I might throw Scourton in on that pile for the sixth potential pro bowler).  We are weak at NT, and if Wharton does not step up, DE.  Funny, I see Edge as our strength (and we really don't have a sack artist) and I love our starting CBs.  Moehrig is making too much to be average.   Expect:  In the draft, I think we have to draft a DT.  Having done this, I am not sure that we go after a S when we have such glaring needs at other positions.  We could upgrade at nickel and give the CB room more depth.  OLB?  Wallace is decent depth, and he could start in a pinch.   DE is our biggest need.  The answer could be on the roster?            
    • 07579394
      SOURCE: Panthers #1 target is KC Conception

      By 07579394 · Posted

    • TheSpecialJuan
      First, Last and Only Mock: Wrong answers edition

      By TheSpecialJuan · Posted

      I hate it 
×
×
  • Create New...