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Jangler

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2 hours ago, tarheels said:

experience is still better than first time.

Elway finally beat GB and Atlanta with a weaker arm/better run game/better Defense.

history repeats itself just as much in sports as anywhere else.

 Sure,Denver lost super bowls but the fact is they keep going every decade. The teams they lost to were nfc east teams that keep going to championships/playoffs.

who did Clemson lose to after going undefeated? a team that keeps going to Championships.

the Patriots went undefeated...except for that one game. against an organization accustomed to post season play annually every few years.

the truth is the Panthers are the actual underdog here and now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh give me a fuging break with that experience bullshit.  There's enough Super Bowl experience on our team, and in our front office.  What you think the whole roster, and every coach, is fresh out of college?

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8 hours ago, tarheels said:

question if I may: how old are you? do you not recollect past teams and games?

Carolina is just a team that got the better of weak and injured nfc teams. If the defense is so good,how come it got in shootouts vs Seattle and NY in the season. How could they lose to Atlanta?

Carolina is now missing a starting CB and they beat the Cards who had 3 defensive starters on IR. they scored many points on just a weak ass Cards defense.

Missing a starting CB in the biggest game already puts it in Mannings favor

 

Atlanta in 97/98 went 14-2 and then went on to lose to a Denver team with an aging QB but new and better defense and run game. Just like this year.

the Giants in 2000 beat the crap out of Minn and then went on to lose to Trent Dilfer and the Ravens.

I'm 42. And yes it's possible for the Denver defense to show out historically. But that doesn't take into account the fact that we have the best run game in the NFL AND the highest scoring offense in the NFL. Not to mention a defense that is top 5 with the most takeaways. 

The difference between the 2000 Giants and us is we are a better team. Yes the HoF Manning can still capitalize on mistakes and if we make them he can make us pay. But I don't see it that way. I see us running well and making them pay with turnovers.

Not sure what my age has to do with any of that though.

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9 hours ago, tarheels said:

being a number one defense means knowing how to prepare no matter what the other teams strength is.

 You really think the team that just beat the Pats who never lose, is worried about a bunch of first time playoff run rookies?

 Manning and the Coach will do everything to make sure Seattle 2.0 doesnt have a chance of happening.

 

2000- Giants shut our Minn. and lost to the trent Dilfer lead Ravens.

 

Pats lost plenty of times this season.

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2 hours ago, tarheels said:

experience is still better than first time.

Elway finally beat GB and Atlanta with a weaker arm/better run game/better Defense.

history repeats itself just as much in sports as anywhere else.

 Sure,Denver lost super bowls but the fact is they keep going every decade. The teams they lost to were nfc east teams that keep going to championships/playoffs.

who did Clemson lose to after going undefeated? a team that keeps going to Championships.

the Patriots went undefeated...except for that one game. against an organization accustomed to post season play annually every few years.

the truth is the Panthers are the actual underdog here and now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Damn....you REALLY ARE that stupid. 

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This idea of defense wins championships was more true during the 70s and before when an offense was built around a run game first and passing as an option......the future of elite offenses now are built on a multi-skilled QB with scrambling and/or run ability along with a passing game more so that a committed run game of the era's past............as a result Carolina and Seattle are the best offenses in the NFL hands down.........and to a lessor extent the mobility of the Steelers and Colts offenses........the days of Brady, Manning, Ryan and Palmer type QBs is closing.........

Say what you want but it is the integrity of the Oline that wins all games today in the past and in the future too.....

If your Oline can provide time and holes for your skill players to move the chains.........then you eat up the clock, score points, and keep the other team's offense off the field.............while wearing out the opposing teams defense while keeping your own defense fresh.

All that stated, though the running game is here to stay as Olines love to run block more than pass block as a rule.

Olines are the foundation for winning all games

............now consider our Oline verses Broncos Oline..................I rest my case.

 

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8 hours ago, Thorrez said:

And by "running QB" you actually mean "black QB"? Because Bridgewater is about as far from a running qb that it gets. Except of course in the eyes of old white guys...

You point about the Chiefs are valid, they are similar to us running read option and actually have have running qb. So the Broncos have full experience about how to lose to the kind of team that we are. Should really help them. 

And that is not even considering we are a lot better than the Chiefs. 

Not a black/white issue. The Denver Broncos think Phillip Rivers is a running QB too, or at least they made him look like Cam Newton.

This Broncos defense is about as over-hyped as the Cardinals offense. They are good at what they do, but they are not great and have glaring weaknesses no one wants to discuss in the national media.

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12 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Denver has the best defense the Panthers will have faced this year.

 

Let's be real, and give credit, where credit is due. The Broncos wouldn't even be in the Superbowl if it wasn't for how good their defense is.

 

WITH THAT BEING SAID....

 

 I'm  absolutely positive that our offense can do more against their defense, than their offense can do against our defense.

 

 

CHAMPIONSHIP!!

here's the difference as I see it:

Their defense will slow our offense down (I don't see us getting 49 points), but our defense will absolutely shut their offense down!

Our biggest fear on D is our replacement CBs (who held their own Sunday) getting burned deep, which Manning struggles with. His arm strength on the deep balls just isn't there right now. Manning is too good not to make a few plays, but it won't be nearly enough!

 

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Pats fan here. Rematch of SB38 may have been delayed, but you guys have a good chance of getting there next year, and if we can stay healthy and fix our Oline, maybe we'll have that rematch in SB51.

My thoughts in your match up with Denver:

We were an XP away from taking the game into OT with all of the momentum. Denver had only 6 points in the 2nd half, numerous 3 and outs, and we were getting a ton of pressure on Peyton. Their run game was also nonexistent. Our defense has been very good this year, but I give the edge to Carolina's defense because you guys are the best in the league at taking the ball away from the opposition. I will be shocked if Denver puts up more than 14 points on your defense. Only way their point total is larger than 14 is if they get a ST score or if your offense has a bunch of turnovers.

Offensively, your Oline is far superior to what ours was. Ours played like an Oline that was in contention for worst Oline of all time (or at least in the last decade, as Brady was hit more in that game than any QB since 2006.) Your run game is also probably the best in the league. Not only is your team equipped to have success in the run game vs Denver, but your strong Oline and presence of a run game will also ensure that Cam won't pressured as much as Brady was.

Despite the trash Oline, we were a missed XP or a FG away from winning the game on the road. So the two teams (Denver and NE) are about as evenly matched as you'll see. And as a Pats fan, I can genuinely say that even if we squeaked one out on Sunday, we would very likely have lost to you guys. So I see no reason why you can't win SB50 fairly comfortably. 

Plus, watching Denver getting blown out in the SB every few years is a long standing tradition now. I'm sure your team would love to be part of that tradition. Not to mention that seeing the 'Manning face' in the SB is equally as satisfying. ;)

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    • Greetings Huddlers.  Here is my annual analysis of the offense pre-draft in my attempt to predict and understand moves made draft weekend, which is upon us!  I analyze my views on each position and might suggest why I think the Panthers will do what they will do.  This is not my opinion (but there is some bias in it) but more of an educated guess based on the little we know. Quarterback: Gonna start with a conspiracy theory—probably nothing to discuss. It seems that we are going with Bryce, but there was a somewhat interesting statement made about Bryce’s contract.  Morgan (I believe) stated that they would look into Bryce’s contract after the draft.  That probably means that he is busy, but I found it interesting that Draft Kings shows the Panthers as the sixth, “most likely” team to draft Ty Simpson, based on betting lines.  Acquiring Kenny Pickett and moving Andy Dalton to Philly creates another dynamic that could signal some draft day (or post-draft day) drama.  Hurts situation in Philly might have necessitated the Dalton move (again, nothing much more than speculation), but the Panthers taking a younger, former first rounder (I know) could possibly signal a QB competition–depending on what we do draft day.  It seems to me that they are hoping to bring in a UDFA, based on visits.  This is not to say that Bryce is stagnant.  He has improved, and with weapons and a fortress in front of him, he could be better.  I never understood how a QB of his ilk would not have a stud receiving TE and a stud Z WR–he has had neither. Heck, if you cover TMAC like you should with man under and S over the top, you can play zone vs. whoever is playing Z (XL).  So maybe they know something we do not; based on TV coverage, it is hard to see what Bryce sees–how open are his receivers?  They know their jobs are riding on Bryce. In my view, the contract should not be fully guaranteed–the devil will be in the details.    Running Back:  The Panthers were right to let Dowdle walk.  Two RBs on expensive contracts with Brooks possibly emerging as a third option is fiscally irresponsible.   In my view, you make you RBs better with better OL play.  Yes, there are players like CMC etc, but Dowdle peaked here, in terms of historical data that shows RBs peak and start rapidly declining between ages 27 and 28.  Chuba is 26, fwiw, and a tremendous locker room leader. I get it. With Brooks, Etienne, and Dillon behind him, we have a pretty full RB room.  This suggests that they feel good about Brooks.   Tight End:  Personally, I think this draft has some potential at the TE position, and I am not sure that the Panthers will address both Z WR and TE–but I feel they will address one of them.  In my view, I would focus on the Z and give TE another year.  Reason?  Evans showed some promise and will enter year 2.  Sanders has been a bit of a disappointment, but he has potential as well (year 3).  Tremble has been tremendous as a blocker and is actually catching a few passes.  Sadiq would be nice, and there are some solid TE options in this draft, but I am afraid we’d be getting more of the same.  If you draft players on day 3, like all of our TEs, it seems that you need to develop them before casting them aside.   Center:  We are probably more respectable at the C position for 2026 than people realize.  Fortner is basically the equivalent of Cade Mays at a third of the price.  They are about the same age (27 and 26).  Luke Fortner is an center for the Carolina Panthers who earned a 66.5 overall PFF grade in the 2025 season, 18th among 40 qualified centers. He played 678 offensive snaps on the season. Fortner’s  PFF pass-blocking grade of 72.5 ranked 7th among 40 qualified centers in 2025. His run-blocking grade of 65.3 ranked 19th at the position.          Compare that to Mays, who was 24th among 40 qualified centers. He played 726 offensive snaps on the season.  His PFF pass-blocking grade of 69.4 ranked 13th among 40 qualified centers. His run-blocking grade of 58.5 ranked 33rd at the position.  Fortner is actually an upgrade, based on these numbers. To me, the mystery here is Nick Samac, who was originally drafted by the Ravens. The Panthers protected his roster spot last season, something I thought was interesting.  Word on the street is that they like him, but how much?  Samac is a great run blocker for a 24-year old; his issues are in pass protection.  We want to focus on the run, but with a dwarf at QB, we need the middle of the OL to hold up.  If Samac learns to widen his base and get good leverage, we could have a starting-caliber center on our hands at some point.  Is Samac why we let Mays walk?  Is Samac the reason Fortner only got a one-year deal?   Maybe, just maybe, Center is not a huge need.  I think we draft one, but maybe not as soon as you might think.     Guard:  Hunt and Lewis are solid—and expensive–and knocking on the door of 30.  Hunt was injured for most of 2025, but Lewis was very solid.  Lewis: His PFF pass-blocking grade of 79.7 ranked 3rd among 81 qualified offensive guards. His run-blocking grade of 73.1 ranked 14th at the position. Contractually, there is not much we can do if we wanted to move on.  Hunt will count $24m against the cap; Lewis about $17m.  However, in 2027, when both are turning 31, we could save $19m (of $24m) on Hunt’s deal if we cut him post June 1 and $13m of Lewis’ deal if we cut him at any time.  At the same time, Bryce’s big money will kick in, making these moves nearly inevitable. Do not be surprised to see us draft a G this year.  Zavala sucked when he played, and you can expect two 30-year old guards to get banged up. Saahdiq is probably their top reserve guard, and he has been a bust since being drafted in round 4 by Washington.  We need someone for depth in 2026 and possibly to start in 2027.   Tackle:  Ekwonu in 2025: earned a 69.9 overall PFF grade in the 2025 season, 36th among 89 qualified offensive tackles. He played 942 offensive snaps on the season.  He was below average as a pass blocker in 2025 and above average as a run blocker.  (Sure sounds like a Guard BEFORE the injury).He allowed 40 total pressures in pass protection. That total included 5 sacks and 6 hits allowed to opposing pass rushers. He was flagged for 7 penalties over the course of the season.  These numbers are far from elite. However, since he needs the better part of a year to recover–and since we might need 2 guards in 2027, why not give him an incentive-laden GUARD contract and move him to his natural position?  I think I do that, realizing that he can play outside in a pinch (see Wharton, Travelle).  So when I consider Ickey’s return, considering his contract etc. I do not see a return to OT–guard is his position now.   Walker, in my view, was the steal of free agency for the Panthers.  No, he is not an all-star, but he can play at a level I will call “average” for the LT position. In 2025 for the Packers, he earned a 64.6 overall PFF grade, 52nd among 89 qualified offensive tackles (slightly below average). He played 986 offensive snaps on the season.His PFF pass-blocking grade of 70.0 ranked 42nd among 89 qualified offensive tackles (average). His run-blocking grade of 55.4 ranked 71st at the position (well below average). He allowed 34 total pressures in pass protection. That total included 5 sacks and 1 hits allowed to opposing pass rushers. He was flagged for 9 penalties over the course of the season (very similar to Icky–better in pass pro, much worse in run blocking).  Moton: Our best offensive lineman by far. Moton earned a 80.5 overall PFF grade in the 2025 season, 15th among 89 qualified offensive tackles (above average). He played 901 offensive snaps on the season. His PFF pass-blocking grade of 76.5 ranked 21st among 89 qualified offensive tackles. His run-blocking grade of 81.9 ranked 12th at the position (Moton is elite). He allowed 22 total pressures in pass protection. That total included 3 sacks and 4 hits allowed to opposing pass rushers. He was flagged for 5 penalties over the course of the season.  Moton and trainers have been monitoring a “Chronic” knee condition (common in older OL). Moton feels that he can keep playing.  In my view, he can be cut after 2026 (post june 1) and the team would save $19m of his contract at age 33.  Depending how he plays and holds up in 2026, that is a real possibility.   Stone Forsythe: Sounds like a comic book detective.   Wide Receiver:   The Panthers are met with 105 position players in some way (from visits to pro day/combine meetings etc) 2026 Panthers Draft Visits Tracker”There are six potential first round picks on the list–four of them are wide receivers—KC Concepcion, Omar Cooper Jr., Denzel Boston, and Jordan Tyson (personal workout). Concepcion is from Charlotte, so the Panthers almost had to host him for a visit. It’d be an interesting allocation of resources to use three straight first-round picks on wide receivers, especially when an undrafted free agent has already usurped one of those first-round picks. The visits from projected Day 2 players are all over the map. Again, multiple wide receivers appear.  Of the 105 position players the Panthers met with, 15 were Wide Receivers.  They are doing their homework at Wide receiver.   Tetairoa McMillan earned a 78.7 overall PFF grade in the 2025 season, 21st among 81 qualified wide receivers. His PFF receiving grade of 78.7 ranked 23rd among 81 qualified wide receivers (well above average). He hauled in 70 receptions on 120 targets for 1,014 receiving yards and 7 touchdowns. McMillan averaged 14.5 yards per reception on the season.  He generated 271 yards after the catch, demonstrating his ability to create with the ball in his hands. He was charged with 7 drops on the year (clean that up, TMac). His average depth of target was 12.3 yards, reflecting his role in the passing attack.  TMac is a strong X WR.  Jalen Coker: Before the last 7 games of 2025 (beginning Nov 16, 2025), Coker had 66 yards on 7 catches.  After that date, Coker exploded during the final 8 games (including the playoff game) for 462 yards in 35 catches. We need him healthy but he is a stud folks.  The best hands on the team–I would go as far as to say Ricky Proehl hands.  Yep.   Xavier Legette earned a 52.6 overall PFF grade in the 2025 season, 79th among 81 qualified wide receivers (rock bottom). His PFF receiving grade of 54.7 ranked 78th among 81 qualified wide receivers.(still on the bottom) He hauled in 35 receptions on 59 targets for 363 receiving yards and 3 touchdowns. Legette averaged 10.4 yards per reception on the season.  He generated 74 yards after the catch, demonstrating his ability to create with the ball in his hands. He was charged with 1 drop (improvement). His average depth of target was 11.0 yards, reflecting his role in the passing attack.  His contract is not steep (under $4m) and it is fully guaranteed. Financially, it makes no sense to cut him based on the fact that we knew he was raw when we drafted him. The improvement in drops suggests that he is coachable, but his comments during pressers give me anxiety about his mental state. Let him compete. John Metchie III:  Maybe he needed another season with another team–a reunification with Bryce?  Not sure two drowning swimmers can pull each other back into the boat. At any rate, it is worth a shot. Low Risk, high reward?   John Metchie III is a wide receiver for the Carolina Panthers who earned a 57.6 overall PFF grade in the 2025 season, 74th among 81 qualified wide receivers. His PFF receiving grade of 58.7 ranked 73rd among 81 qualified wide receivers.He hauled in 33 receptions on 48 targets for 274 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns. Metchie III averaged 8.3 yards per reception on the season.  He generated 144 yards after the catch, demonstrating his ability to create with the ball in his hands. He was charged with 4 drops on the year. His average depth of target was 5.5 yards, reflecting his role in the passing attack. Jimmy Horn:  They really do not throw it downfield to Horn much—just a reverse, screen guy.  I think there could be more.  He caught 11 passes of 13 targets (1 drop) in 2025 for 120 yards.  In comparison, fwiw, Steve Smith caught 10 passes (20 targets) for 154 yards during his rookie season.  Give him some time. Brycen Tremayne: Tremayne is one of those UDFAs that you root for.  A big (6’4” 212) WR with football intelligence (Stanford), Tremayne quietly had 160 yards in 2025 (14 catches/17 targets).  Not a super star, but an active special team player who can make plays on offense.   Overview:  If I am the Panthers, I forget about Ickey and Moton beyond 2026 as tackles. I pencil in Ickey at Guard and hope that he heals. Having said that, it is quite possible that our entire OL is different by 2027.  Hunt and Lewis will be 31 and their contracts will be ending (cuttable).  Our current starting center (Fortner) will be a free agent.  Our current starting LT will be a free agent.  Yikes. To make matters worse, Bryce’s expected contract (hard to say this) will make free agency an unlikely source for talent.  We need to start building the next room now. Does that mean first rounders?  Of course not.  Most of the guys in the first round this year would not have been last year–so grab kids that are risers “but not there yet.”  This draft is good at the bottom for OL talent–just not great at the top.  Take a few days 2-3.  Not ideal, but you can’t force it.  I think we kept Tremayne (WR) as a key backup, but he is a good fourth WR who can move inside and create mismatches, much like a pass-catching TE–so I do not expect TE in this draft unless we dive in early–Sadiq.  Developing your young talent is a better risk, imo.  Sanders has not scratched his potential and Evans showed some signs.  Tremble is getting better. If they think XL is about to turn the corner as the Z WR, they might go TE, but XL is, according to PFF, one of the worst WRs in the league.  Coker? On an opposite trajectory.  We need a Z WR more than we need a TE, so if we focus on needs on defense (S, LB, DE) and the offense (WR, OL) I am not seeing the luxury of adding a TE to play before our developmental players can reach their potential.  We really have no established depth at WR behind TMac and Coker, so expect a Z in the draft–early. I think they are going with Chuba, Brooks, Eteinne, and Dillon for now at RB.  QB?  It sure looks as though the are going to grab a UDFA to be the emergency QB.  One will fall out of the draft that has the potential to stick in the NFL–which is why we brought them in for visits–we want that team to be us.  I think this is the best evidence that we are “all in” on Bryce.   Predictions:   Round 1:  WR: I still think this is the biggest possibility for round 1 if you go by position.  A rare talent from Oregon (TE or S) could be the pick if the WRs don’t fall, and the same can be said for OL or DL.  This draft is very challenging, but the tea leaves say WR is an area they researched heavily.  By the way, they LOVE Texas Tech LB Rodriquez.  Met with him 3 times.  Do not be surprised…he is my darkhorse.   The betting lines, however, provide some interesting perspectives,and the player’s expected availability is factored in, so take with a grain of salt:   (Panther Wire) For those of you who want an OT (I am not going to cry if we land a Proctor, for example–I totally get it), Morgan said this (in relation to Canales’ comments at the league meeting about the first rounder being an immediate starter):  “"I understand what Coach is saying in terms of—obviously, you want your first-round pick to be able to come in and contribute immediately. So, yeah, I'm kinda with him on that," Morgan stated when asked of Canales' comments. "You want your first-round pick to play, but there's different scenarios to where maybe it takes a guy a little longer to develop, and he may not contribute right away. With some of the picks at different positions, it may take a little longer for those guys to develop, for sure." That could apply to CB or OT, in my opinion.   Round 2: This will probably be defense if they draft WR in round 1, but if they do not, expect the WR in round 2.  I do not see a WR after round 2 helping much–it would be better to go with the TE if that is the case.  I am of the mindset that XL will not emerge to reach his potential, a major indicator of my thinking on this. This will be a LB--they want Rodriguez but the will draft Hill or Golday if WR is taken in round 1. Round 3:  I see DL, S, and TE in my crystal football.  However, my night visions show us taking a TE--Max Klare from Ohio State. I see DE as perhaps our biggest need--but not many share my view--we never replaced Robinson. (This is tough to do) Day 3:  Expect OL OL and maybe DL. Our OL is in its last season together.  A total overhaul is ahead. Keep an eye on Jude Bowry and Austin Barber.  Mark my words!!   So that is it for the offense.  I hope you enjoyed this–by doing this, it helps me understand the currents and the nuances of the draft–I enjoy it more–so this is for me, shared with you.  I will take a look at D and try to share by Tuesday. If you appreciate this, see the link pinned in Huddle and help out if you can- Newborn Twin Granddaughters 
    • That I will agree with. Their dad is a clown show and a half. 🤦‍♂️
    • He fits in better with the falcons, bucs or  saints.  
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