Interesting article: Qbs releasing the ball faster

[KB_fan]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/198375/quarterbacks-quicker-release-a-product-of-subpar-protection

A few excerpts...
 

Quote

 

Miller’s ability to get to the quarterback -- five sacks, six hits in the last two games -- was one of the biggest reasons the Broncos advanced past the New England Patriots and Carolina Panthers.

The matchup in the AFC title game, specifically, represented a trend throughout the league: Quarterbacks are getting rid of the ball in record time. Defenses are trying to scheme up ways to force more pressure, giving QBs almost no time to make a pass.

At the core of the issue? Nearly every organization in the NFL is struggling to field a protective offensive line.

 

[...]

Quote

 

Teams have been forced to explore alternate methods to make up for deficiencies up front, the most obvious of which is designing offenses that depend on the quarterback to get rid of the ball quickly.

Fastest QB Releases, 2015

Quarterback	Seconds to Pass
Andy Dalton, CIN	2.20
Tom Brady, NE	2.26
Peyton Manning, DEN	2.27
Ryan Fitzpatrick, NYJ	2.31
Alex Smith, KC	2.32

According to Football Outsiders research, the Cincinnati Bengals had the most efficient passing attack in the league last year. Andy Dalton started 13 games and released the ball (on average) in 2.20 seconds, according to ESPN Stats & Information. That’s the fastest time since the stat was first tracked in 2011.

 

[...]

Quote

 

Leaguewide, quarterbacks took 2.48 seconds to get rid of the ball in 2015. That number has gone down for four consecutive years. And there does appear to be the makings of a trend. Twenty quarterbacks were at 2.5 seconds or quicker last season; only seven hit that mark 2012.

QBs Unloading The Ball Faster

Year	QBs at or below 2.5-second mark
2012	7
2013	11
2014	13
2015	20

There are still quarterbacks like Cam Newton, Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers who are brilliant at shaking off defenders and extending plays. But even those offenses -- specifically Seattle and Green Bay -- need elements of the quick passing game to make up for protection issues. For teams that don’t have elusive quarterbacks, getting rid of the ball quickly is even more important.

Of course, in football, whenever one side thinks it has a solution, the other develops a counter. The most obvious one is to find edge rushers who can get to the quarterback in a hurry. Unfortunately for defensive coordinators, there are not 32 Von Millers roaming the earth.

Another solution is to find corners who are capable of playing tight press coverage, forcing quarterbacks to hold on to the ball. In other words, take away the lay-ups.

 

For discussion:

1) To what extent has weakness of Oline protection shaped our game?  Is our Oline better than average, or are we just better at working around weakness to ensure Cam has had tons of time to throw?

2) Do we see our defense changing to respond to QBs throwing the ball faster?  To my mind this seems a bit more of an AFC issue than an NFC issue, but still, it does emphasize our need for a fast, effective pass rush, something we've struggled with somewhat of late...

Question:  Does anyone have stats from the past 5 years about Cam's average time to pass?  I'd be interested in seeing how they've changed / if they've changed.

 

[KB_fan]

Apparently time to throw is a PFF signature stat.  (Something I don't have access to).  Digging around PFF, I found an article analyzing QB time to throw from mid 2014 (about the 2013 season).

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/16/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw/

I've only skimmed it, but it looks as if in the 2013 season, Cam was last in the league with an average 5.14 second time to throw.

I'm pretty sure he's throwing a lot faster than that now!  It would be very interesting to know the current figure.

[KSpan]

2 hours ago, KB_fan said:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/198375/quarterbacks-quicker-release-a-product-of-subpar-protection

A few excerpts...
 

[...]

[...]

For discussion:

1) To what extent has weakness of Oline protection shaped our game?  Is our Oline better than average, or are we just better at working around weakness to ensure Cam has had tons of time to throw?

2) Do we see our defense changing to respond to QBs throwing the ball faster?  To my mind this seems a bit more of an AFC issue than an NFC issue, but still, it does emphasize our need for a fast, effective pass rush, something we've struggled with somewhat of late...

Question:  Does anyone have stats from the past 5 years about Cam's average time to pass?  I'd be interested in seeing how they've changed / if they've changed.

 

PFF-type stats say that our line was better than average, if not much better, in pass protection this year. Part of that is likely due to the scheme and our willingness to leave backs and TEs in to help, but I think that's a credit to Cam's ability to make throws into tighter coverages that other QBs can't.

Regarding the defense, this is exactly why Gettleman places a premium on pass rush and ability to get pressure with the front 4. Forcing the ball out with 6 or 7 in coverage is a huge advantage, as we've seen in Carolina - 2013 in particular - and with Denver' s defense in the Super Bowl.

[JARROD]

21 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/198375/quarterbacks-quicker-release-a-product-of-subpar-protection

A few excerpts...
 

[...]

[...]

For discussion:

1) To what extent has weakness of Oline protection shaped our game?  Is our Oline better than average, or are we just better at working around weakness to ensure Cam has had tons of time to throw?

2) Do we see our defense changing to respond to QBs throwing the ball faster?  To my mind this seems a bit more of an AFC issue than an NFC issue, but still, it does emphasize our need for a fast, effective pass rush, something we've struggled with somewhat of late...

Question:  Does anyone have stats from the past 5 years about Cam's average time to pass?  I'd be interested in seeing how they've changed / if they've changed.

 

One weakness I see is coaching with Cam and lack of changing his throwing platform.

For example,..

Green Bay and Minnesota often had Favre relocate somewhere besides right behind the center to launch.  What I see is Cam always throwing from behind center, eitherfrom Shotgun, Pistol or from under center-- but he never runs back to either side, stops and throws.  Hes in the predicable pocket where he design runs, option runs, or throws.

Move his platform, and show him how to do the stop, swim move a DE now doing a dirt face plant, pump fake to move someone and throw.

Ive linked my favorite touchdown pass ever, and voted best hail mary pass ever(although for me it wasnt a hail mary--its very much a planned play, not a throw up and hope pass)

Watch the typical move of the platform, stop and swim off of the rush, and boom.

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

The rest of the NFL is focusing on getting the ball out quicker, meanwhile Shula doubles down on the slow developing down field routes in the Super Bowl while his OL is obviously struggling to protect.  His counter measures?  Screens and other quick hitting routes, right?  Wrong!  You obviously don't know about Mike fuging Shula!  No, we'll continue to run the same routes, we'll just go to max protect and then act shocked when our castoff WRs can't get open with only two or three guys actually going out to run a route.  Then, to cap it all off, we'll try to throw our franchise QB, league MVP under the bus by saying that he didn't play well enough.

That's Mike Shula.

[Mr. Scot]

Type of offense matters here.

For example, passes tend to come out a lot quicker for teams running a West Coast Offense versus a Coryell.

[uscgamecocks]

We needed to hit the check down RB on called chip protections when Denver sent green dig blitzes and we never did in the SB.  With man coverage in the back it would have been easy yards and first downs.  It was there multiple times we just didn't hit it.  I'm sure they will see it on tape and will be ready for it next year.

Designed screens would have gotten blown up against those green dog blitzes. The linebacker is literally reading the halfback on those plays.

[outlaw4]

I'm really interested to see how our offense adjusts coming into next season. Denver and Atlanta gave everyone the blueprint to disrupt us and since it's a copycat league, I get the impression Cam won't have the luxury of 5+ seconds to set his feet and throw like last season. So what to do?

1. Improve the short/intermediate game. Assume we only have around 3 seconds to get rid of the ball. We don't need excellence but enough competence to have a contingency when protection isn't there.

2. Go big. Having Benjamin back will help but I feel we need at least one more tall pass catching target to serve as a safety valve. 

3. Upgrade the Uglies. Looking right at Oher and Remmers but I'll throw in a twist and include Kalil as well. He got dinged up a fair number of times last season and I fear a noticeable decline in him any season now. Personally, I think it's time to find his successor now because the answer is not on our roster.

4. Put in all on the defense. If the Broncos could win a Super Bowl with an ancient QB, then might as well leave our offense as is and try to turn our defense into the best unit this franchise has ever seen. That means no more blowing away big leads or allowing someone like Luke McCown slicing us up underneath. Admittedly, our games may end up looking uglier with box scores closer to 20-10 but if we win it all, that's a small price to pay.

[JARROD]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Type of offense matters here.

For example, passes tend to come out a lot quicker for teams running a West Coast Offense versus a Coryell.

Play and tempo selection have little to do with either system. All the "west coast" systems did is choose more running backs, screens, both wideout and running back, called an runs, and quick slants. All of those are mixed in all systems.

within all systems you see coordinators change to do what they want to emphasize. Colonel Klink, much like Chip Kelly prefers much more run calls, Andy Reid liked a lot more stretch plays, and mike McCarthy lets Rodgers air it out more. 

Same thing in the Coryell systems.

getting less predictable, moving the quarterbacks platform, going up tempo when you see the other team put the defensive personnel out that you want to match up with so they can't substitute are all just if not more important than the system or even the play calls themselves.

the NFL offense is truly more about match ups, getting quarterbacks into rhythms, and misdirection to negate speed than systems.

this is why we see so many hybrids, and so many changes in offensive formations when the plays are the same. Mask the plays. 

Then the up tempo no huddle is really trying to get the right match ups you want and take substitutions from the defense.

moving platforms for me is to help the quarterback have more time to make good decisions and get the defense off balance before the throw.

these things are what I've seen us lack with Shula. 

 

[JawnyBlaze]

2 hours ago, KB_fan said:

Apparently time to throw is a PFF signature stat.  (Something I don't have access to).  Digging around PFF, I found an article analyzing QB time to throw from mid 2014 (about the 2013 season).

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/16/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw/

I've only skimmed it, but it looks as if in the 2013 season, Cam was last in the league with an average 5.14 second time to throw.

I'm pretty sure he's throwing a lot faster than that now!  It would be very interesting to know the current figure.

This is somewhat of a misleading stat, because it's dependent on the system.  In our system, with long developing routes, of course it's gonna take longer to throw.  Add to that our OL problems the past few years and Cam having to scramble around a bunch to avoid sacks, his "time to throw" stat is inflated.  If we were to run a west coast system, or at least reduce the frequency of plays with long developing routes, our "time to throw" stat wouldn't be so high.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, JARROD said:

Play and tempo selection have little to do with either system. All the "west coast" systems did is choose more running backs, screens, both wideout and running back, called an runs, and quick slants. All of those are mixed in all systems.

within all systems you see coordinators change to do what they want to emphasize. Colonel Klink, much like Chip Kelly prefers much more run calls, Andy Reid liked a lot more stretch plays, and mike McCarthy lets Rodgers air it out more. 

Same thing in the Coryell systems.

getting less predictable, moving the quarterbacks platform, going up tempo when you see the other team put the defensive personnel out that you want to match up with so they can't substitute are all just if not more important than the system or even the play calls themselves.

the NFL offense is truly more about match ups, getting quarterbacks into rhythms, and misdirection to negate speed than systems.

this is why we see so many hybrids, and so many changes in offensive formations when the plays are the same. Mask the plays. 

Then the up tempo no huddle is really trying to get the right match ups you want and take substitutions from the defense.

moving platforms for me is to help the quarterback have more time to make good decisions and get the defense off balance before the throw.

these things are what I've seen us lack with Shula. 

There are variations within all systems, but a base WCO is going to heavily favor short quick passes. Bill Walsh explained the philosophy as turning a short pass into a long handoff.

So yes, there's more to it than just that, but I'm talking about the base structure.

[KillerKat]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The rest of the NFL is focusing on getting the ball out quicker, meanwhile Shula doubles down on the slow developing down field routes in the Super Bowl while his OL is obviously struggling to protect.  His counter measures?  Screens and other quick hitting routes, right?  Wrong!  You obviously don't know about Mike fuging Shula!  No, we'll continue to run the same routes, we'll just go to max protect and then act shocked when our castoff WRs can't get open with only two or three guys actually going out to run a route.  Then, to cap it all off, we'll try to throw our franchise QB, league MVP under the bus by saying that he didn't play well enough.

That's Mike Shula.

This pretty much sums up everything perfectly. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

Good stuff

[mcdougal]

I am not going to hate on Shula too much. Never in a million years did I think he could ever OC his way to the No. 1 scoring offense. Not even with the early 2000s Rams offensive talent did I think that was possible.

But I have always maintained that his passing offense- this passing offense- on the outside looking in, is too damn hard. IMO, 70% of the throws that Newton attempts are what I would consider hard throws to complete. They are long developing, hold the ball for 5 seconds putting tremendous stress on your OL, and the throws are into small ass windows requiring pin-point accuracy and the WRs to make some-what tough catches. It seems like 70% of our throws is about trying to score on that play...not necessarily that drive.

Whereas, the exact opposite is true for the Packers, Patriots, and Saints. 70% of their passing attempts are fast developing, to wide open WRs which does not require pin-point accuracy, 30% of their throws are the types that Newton attempts regularly. 

Now, maybe that is because Newton simply prefers to be in a offense that is all about attempting the big throw, and getting the big play. Maybe Newton doesn't like or simply is not does not excel in such an offense. Or maybe it is our coaching staff that holds this belief and not Newton. Or maybe it is because Shula knows are WRs are mediocre with no YAC ability therefore getting the ball quickly to them and asking them to gain the yards would result in terrible production. 

 

And I think that our passing concept is the reason why ALL season our offense has been consistently inconsistent at least in this respect. At ANY point in the game, the Panther's offense can go 3 and out. I don't care if the first 5 drives all resulted in a TD...at some point the Panther's offense will go 3 and out. It might go right back to scoring a TD on the next drive but at some point we will go 3 and out. 

The good thing this season is that at ANY point the Panthers could also score a TD, and really outside of ATL, every game this season our offense moved the ball fairly well (Cowboys and Broncos we just could score TDs/turned over the ball).

Hopefully with the addition of more athletic WRs/TEs/RBs we can least adopt an element of our passing game where every single yard doesn't come off the right arm of Cam Newton.