I Don't Get The Celebration Here...

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

We were what, 4th in sacks? Seems like our pass rush was pretty stout to me. A team is more than just one player. And our sack total showed that.

 

In fact, our pass rush was good enough to make Finnegan, and McClain look pretty good. How come that isn't good enough for some people. Oh I see, we didn't lead the league in sacks so we must be lacking in that department.

 

 

Our DE's were average at best on the season.  Sacks also all don't come from great front pressure.  

KK was a beast but we were way to reliant on our pressure coming from him

I don't think you can just look at sacks and claim we were good at generating pressure.  We were okay.    We played good total defense.   Norman was a key cog to that.   Which helped us get sacks because often QBs were playing with reduced targets because of gameplans

[Sam Mills Fan]

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

People  have to look at this from a total team standpoint. If JNo is rated a 10, and is paid 16 mil a year, and Gettleman feels he can get a 6 at cb, plus add a few plus 3s in other positions for the same 16 mil, it makes more sense to let JNo go.

It's about improving the total team. This is a rough business with no guarantees. JNo should go get paid while he can. It's just unfortunate it couldn't be here.

A 6 and 3 3s don't singlehandedly beat the Saints and Texans like Josh did.

[arbnranger]

Man.. Complex topic.. I go back and forth.

One aspect that I think is really important to note is the agent component. We say Josh but Josh is represented and taking advice from an expert....exactly how we all would operate if we needed a lawyer for example .

We defer to the "experts" knowledge and experience. Obviously the agent valued Josh higher than what the organization was willing to pay. It's a very fine line that the agent needs to be in tune with. 

The recent deals with top name players on our team shows me the organization has a willingness to negotiate if the value is there. 

I personally love Josh but if it was my company I would want to see more than one outstanding year. If you want me to pay you I need to feel convinced. Convince me.. and you get what you ask ... 

Are you valuable? Yes 

Are you X amount valuable? Not sure. 

 

 

[IGSaint]

1 minute ago, Sam Mills Fan said:

But why are people celebrating? Because your hardcore Gettleman cult devotees are all over the Huddle. It's straight-up hero worship with these people towards him. Anybody that crosses Gettleman is therefore the enemy and must be defeated.

I kinda agree with this. Norman has some blame for this for overinflating his value but there's definitely some Gettleman worship going on here

[Jon Snow]

Please point me to these celebrations you are referring to.  Seems I'm missing one hell of a party.

[iamhubby1]

8 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

But that's my point...  i don't understand people fist bumping and high fiving because he tried to get a little more money than what was offered and GMan told him to shove it.  That's not entertaining or amusing to me.  He did what anyone would do in that situation and tried to maximize he earnings.  Players do the same thing every year - they don't sign the tag, rumors start flying that they'll holdout, they don't practice with the team, they don't attend meetings or OTAs, and almost always, the team weathers the storm and the player's expectations become more realistic and they come to an agreement.   But, GMan just gave him the boot at a horrible time and leaving us with yet another need going into the draft.

Obviously, only GMan and Norman's camp knows what all is behind it, but it doesn't sound like Norman ever expected this...  just as i mentioned, I'm sure he thought he was just playing his part until the numbers settled.  

Just like i said in the OP, the team is my number one priority, but I don't see how this helps the team as of right now.  I also am a fan of Josh as a public person and a player, so that angle makes it tougher to digest as well.  But, we'll see what haplens from here I guess...

 

First off. You saying people are "Fist bumping and high fiving" is just not true. Please stop using that to make your point.

 

Second. You can't say Gman shoved Josh out the door in one sentence. Then say you don't know what happened in the next. Wishy washy is a bad way to make a point.

 

Which is worse? People griping about how folks are dealing with this? Or folks making things up to make those gripers look worse?

[Proudiddy]

6 minutes ago, CarolinaNCSU said:

If that's what your head is set on, that's what it's set on. To me, that's nothing but a hyperbolic statement coming from emotion that has literally ZERO backing other than the scenario you've created in your head. 

The tag was there. Gman has tried getting long term deals done twice. Once, at 11-12 million. He doesn't value corners as highly as others. He's been nothing (publicly) but supportive of Josh it seems. He wished him well. He would probably take him back with open arms at 12 million. But Josh wants more. Josh can, and will, get more. And the Panthers will move on. You act like Gettleman literally told Josh to fug off unless he met his demands. I would assume a lot of numbers were talked about. Hell, Gettleman probably even ran some math that gave Norman a big ass contract. He didn't like it. He made a decision. If that's telling a player to shove it, then I'd hate to see Gettleman be nice to someone.

Yes, previously GMan has been supportive of Josh, but "shove it" is the figurative interpretation of what he just literally did with his actions.  That isn't hyperbolic.  He literally just fired him.  What else do you call it?  

If you keep telling me you're worth X, but I say you're worth Y, we can't come to an agreement and I say tell you, "thanks for all you've done, but you'll be working elsewhere now," that is a flowery way of saying, "shove it."  Lol...

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

We have a culture now. Who gives a fug what the standard is on the market. 

I agree mostly, but I still believe in a certain amount of flexibility, adaptability or deviation from  your hard-nosed philosophy depending upon the situation. 

Don't get me wrong, I understand G-man's rationale, but I still don't like the immediate result. And I certainly don't see it as a cause for all kinds of ire. In retrospect, I would have preferred a nonexclusive tag. That way we could have gotten this over and done with a lot sooner, and everyone's feelings wouldn't have been so hurt right now. 

[panthers55]

26 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Ask your boss for a job, tell all your friends and family how well you did at work and you are negotiating your raise, then go back and tell them all you asked for too much and the company decided to fire you as a result.  Lol...  that's not humiliating?

I hadn't read about the trade stuff, so good points there.  I'm aware he can get paid anywhere, but the sentiment behind my post was that he wanted to be here and we wanted him back.  Yes, we were far apart, but eventually he would've had to come down, especially considering he was already able to negotiate with other teams and apparently that didn't blossom into anything either.  This just seems to be a pride thing...

That isn't even close to what happened. It is more like you signed a contract for a job and after doing poorly for 2 1/2 years you reach your potential and exceed it for 18 months. You ask for a huge raise. They increase your salary by 1000% and guarantee it. But you want even more and refuse to take their deal so they allow you to go elsewhere and make more money albeit at a company that might not be as successful. 

That hardly seems like shafting you or embarrassing you. After all they were going to pay you tens of millions of dollars and you turned it down for a few million more. You got exactly what you asked for and now you are sad? I don't get it at all.

[SmokinwithWilly]

 

6 minutes ago, Sam Mills Fan said:

A 6 and 3 3s don't singlehandedly beat the Saints and Texans like Josh did.

I didn't mean 3 3s. I meant a 3 pt improvement like from a 4 to a 7 for 3 players. It's a 5pt net increase. Josh made some great plays no doubt, but he also didn't win those games by himself. There are 52 other players on the team that played those games as well.

[Proudiddy]

1 minute ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

First off. You saying people are "Fist bumping and high fiving" is just not true. Please stop using that to make your point.

 

Second. You can't say Gman shoved Josh out the door in one sentence. Then say you don't know what happened in the next. Wishy washy is a bad way to make a point.

 

Which is worse? People griping about how folks are dealing with this? Or folks making things up to make those gripers look worse?

Why are you taking it so personal?  Go read through the forum and tell me there isn't a healthy amount of people laughing it up, sharing memes about how godfather Gettleman is, and commentary on what an idiot Josh has made himself out to be for trying to get his money.

If you don't see that, there's no point in us discussing it any further b3causeyou're either in denial or are purposely being delusional to tailor your argument to your own perception.

[iamhubby1]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Our DE's were average at best on the season.  Sacks also all don't come from great front pressure.  

KK was a beast but we were way to reliant on our pressure coming from him

I don't think you can just look at sacks and claim we were good at generating pressure.  We were okay.    We played good total defense.   Norman was a key cog to that.   Which helped us get sacks because often QBs were playing with reduced targets because of gameplans

 

So now you want to qualify where the sacks come from? Do we know need a separate sack list for DE? DT? LB? Or DB? Sacks are a team stat. It don't matter one whit where they come from. Pressure and sacks help your D. We were pretty damm good at doing both.

 

You pressure a QB and they can make mistakes. Coverage sacks count for sure. But they are no where near as prevalent as from the front 7. But nice try.

 

 

[TheRed]

In the absolute slim chance that Norman does somehow end up back here, the same people speaking as if he is a scrub, or merely a role player of some sort will be the first ones singing his praises if he makes a play. It's just like the same people who used to praise Hurney as a cap guru now swear he is the devil. Selective memories run rampant around here.

[iamhubby1]

1 minute ago, Proudiddy said:

Why are you taking it so personal?  Go read through the forum and tell me there isn't a healthy amount of people laughing it up, sharing memes about how godfather Gettleman is, and commentary on what an idiot Josh has made himself out to be for trying to get his money.

If you don't see that, there's no point in us discussing it any further b3causeyou're either in denial or are purposely being delusional to tailor your argument to your own perception.

 

Not taking it personal. Just pointing out the fallacies in your argument. People are laughing at the people who are acting like they know what really happened. Or the ones that are over reacting, like you.

 

You started this with a ill conceived rant. That is what most are "Fist bumping and high fiving" about. Hellz, if anyone should be embarrassed, it ain't Josh. It is you.