DG's draft success so far

[t96]

20 minutes ago, The_Rainmaker said:

DGs talent evaluation  is average at the best.

 

2013 

Star - Excellent 

Short - Excellent

Kugibilla- Terrible / Bust (4th rounder can't be a bust, and it's not DG's fault by any means that he got hurt every year he was here)

Klein- JAG (he's no Luke but he would be a solid starter for many NFL teams)

Barner - Terrible  / Bust (6th rounder can't be a bust, and once again not DG's fault that our horrible offensive coaching staff had no idea how to use him. He's shown some ability in Philly under better offensive coaching)

 

2014

 

KB - above JAG (easily a top 20 WR and would likely be further along if not for the torn ACL. Great pick)

Ealy - poor (has been a slight disappointment but this is a late 2nd round pick that has flashed greatness and had the greatest performance of anyone at his position in the biggest possible game. Needs to be consistent but definitely not ready to say it was a poor pick)

Turner - good/excellent (excellent, NOT good/excellent. Easily a top 10 guard that was taken late in the 3rd. Amazing pick)

Boston- poor (for a 4th round pick he's actually been pretty damn solid. Has playmaking abilities but can give up big plays. Above average safety depth which is better than expected for a late rounder)

Bene - poor / bust (was extremely solid here before a broken leg derailed his career. for a 5th round pick that's damn good. Not sure how anyone can criticize this pick or the Boston pick)

Gaffney- bust (hardly DG's fault that he got injured and a 6th round pick can't be a bust)

 

2015

Shaq- JAG (lol no. Has shown out in limited playing time and will breakout when needed to take over for TD)

Devin- poor/ bust (he's flashed quite a bit at the end of last year and showed improvement but then got stuck in this crap offense. Not his or DG's fault there. Jury is out, way too early to say poor or bust)

Daryl- JAG (4th round pick that has had some solid play in spot starts. Not much more you can ask for from a 4th rounder)

Mayo- JAG (5th rounder and has been a key ST contributor and shown some ability on defense to be a solid backup at the mike. Once again not much more you can ask for from a 5th rounder)

CAP- JAG (yes but again, 5th round pick, not a big deal)

2016 (lol at evaluating a draft class with 3/4 of a season under their belt...)

Big Vern- poor (hampered by an injury and lack of PT. Jury is completely out)

Bradberry- JAG/good (excellent for when he was drafted and what he's shown on the field. Going to be every bit as good as Josh was here the past few years)

Worley- Below JAG (has been a solid starter and shown ability and improvement, will be a great #2 corner as a 3rd round pick)

Sanchez - Terrible (yes)

Beau- Terrible (essentially a UDFA...)

 

It's insane to expect any more out of a draft than we've gotten the past 4. DG has some limitations for sure but drafting is not one of them.

[My Goodness My Guinness]

8 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

It's insane to expect any more out of a draft than we've gotten the past 4. DG has some limitations for sure but drafting is not one of them.

Logical analysis is not welcome here

[uncfan888]

Rainmaker..  I think you may be bipolar

[The_Rainmaker]

3 hours ago, thomas96 said:

It's insane to expect any more out of a draft than we've gotten the past 4. DG has some limitations for sure but drafting is not one of them.

Klein is not a starter material, last night game showed that 

Barner - is still garbage in Philly and it's DGs fault for not drafting a player that doesn't fits coaches scheme 

Ealy showed up in 1 game but hasn't shown up in any other games for 3 season and we could have drafted a far more successful player in that draft class 

Shaq showed some flashed but also shows a lot of dissapointing plays like constant  busted coverage on  TEs and is not living up to his value.

Devin , total failure so far for supposed #2 , hell even rookies in this year draft class are ahead of him. 

 

Coaches can do so much when they don't even get players that fits the Panthers scheme and are trying to polish several turds 

 

 

[Ricky Spanish]

Anyone after round 3 is a crapshoot.

And grading players from last years and this years draft already? come on man, by your grading Norman would have been a bust the first 3 years of his career. 

Some guys take some time to develop 

[Major wRecktum]

3 minutes ago, The_Rainmaker said:

Coaches can do so much when they don't even get players that fits the Panthers scheme and are trying to polish several turds 

 

 

This is why nobody takes you very seriously, it is well known that, throughout the league, coaches mostly approve or disapprove of the players who are signed by the FO.   These things don't  happen in a vacuum without the input of the coaching staff.

[Major wRecktum]

27 minutes ago, The_Rainmaker said:

Doesn't matter just shows how poor of a evaluator he is, could have drafted someone else 

This, is just silliness.

[AceBoogie]

Well... 

[The_Rainmaker]

12 minutes ago, Major wRecktum said:

This is why nobody takes you very seriously, it is well known that, throughout the league, coaches mostly approve or disapprove of the players who are signed by the FO.   These things don't  happen in a vacuum without the input of the coaching staff.

It may happen in other organizations, but DGs ego doesn't play like that. He bring in and draft who he likes. Shula has been asking for a 2TE for 3 years 

[Major wRecktum]

3 minutes ago, The_Rainmaker said:

It may happen in other organizations, but DGs ego doesn't play like that. He bring in and draft who he likes. Shula has been asking for a 2TE for 3 years 

You have no idea about Dave's ego, and no, he doesn't just bring in the guys he wants.  You are foolish to think otherwise. 

[uncfan888]

18 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

Well... 

Please don't tell me you agree with that first post.  Or, do tell me that so I can disregard your posts

[The_Rainmaker]

11 minutes ago, Major wRecktum said:

You have no idea about Dave's ego, and no, he doesn't just bring in the guys he wants.  You are foolish to think otherwise. 

We all know how it is based on veteran players leaving the organization and the whole Norman fiasco. 

[The_Rainmaker]

11 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

Please don't tell me you agree with that first post.  Or, do tell me that so I can disregard your posts

 

19 minutes ago, Major wRecktum said:

You have no idea about Dave's ego, and no, he doesn't just bring in the guys he wants.  You are foolish to think otherwise. 

7 hours ago, PrimeTimeHeel said:

LOL

Basically the same personnel that almost went undefeated and a trip to the superbowl. 

Brb DG is suppose to have a crystal ball to know

1) Poo ton of injuries

2) DL Regression

3) OL Regression

4) Play Calling Regression

5) Cam Regression

Do you even football brah?

 

Your use of 'basically' tells me you know better.

Yes, the GM is suppose to assess the team and make it stronger every season by spotting the regression before it happens. This is why ineffective or aging players are suppose to be phased out and young players are suppose to be groomed. The only exception is when a team is beginning a rebuild. Do you believe the Panthers needed to be rebuilt following the 2015 season?

Here is a list of lost players and their replacements as well as weaknesses in 2015 that were never addressed to help you out:

1. Jerricho Cotchery: 3rd down slot receiver. Replacement: Funchess. Downgrade.
2. Oher/Remmers. Overpaid with tender and extension. No improvement for a weak area against a schedule with significantly more top edge rushers compared to the 2015 schedule.
3. Fozzy/Tolbert. Frankenstein back up RB. No effort made to find a capable back up. Trusted in CAP development which was another failure. No improvement.
4. OL depth. Downgrade.
5. Jared Allen: Starting DE and vet leader. Replacement: Kony Ealy/Mario Addison. Downgrade.
6. Charles Johnson. Regressing due to injury and age. No replacement. No improvement. Should not be starting.
7. Dwan Edwards. Consistent rotational vet DT. Replacement: Butler/Soliai. Downgrade. Soliai is overpaid and ineffective. Butler is struggling as a rookie (especially the run).
8. Roman Harper. Starting SS and vet leader. Replacement: Kurt Coleman. Downgrade. Coleman is ineffective in the box, struggles with shallow angles, has trouble in man coverage off the line and is a weak tackler.
9. Kurt Coleman FS. Excels at playing deep safety in zone coverage. Replacement: Tre Boston. Downgrade. Boston is hit and miss with a lack of consistency in judging his depth and reading the deep route while watching the QB.
10. Peanut Tillman. Starting CB and vet leader with an edge at forcing fumbles and playing the run. Replacement: Daryl 'Whiff' Worley. Not very physical, horrible against the run, gets lost in coverage, and looks lost. Downgrade.
11. Bene Benwikere. Solid nickel back and back up CB. Replacement. Robert McClain. Downgrade.
12. Josh Norman. Starting all pro CB. Replacement: James '1st Down' Bradberry. Huge downgrade that easily lost at least 3 games this season for the Panthers.

So, there is your 'basically' the same roster. A bunch of downgrades and unattended weaknesses.

Now, let's look at upgrades.

1. Kelvin Benjamin. This I will list as an upgrade even though KB is in his sophomore season and coming back from an injury. The expectation was he would dominate. The result was inconsistent hands and sporadic play making ability. Overall the top 4 WRs production from 2015 to 2016 went down. I will still call this an upgrade even though there was no effort by the front office to improve the WR position.
2. Ummm. Let's see. Searching. Still searching. No results found. That is all for upgrades in the off season.

Now, a look at what we all thought were reasonable expectations during the off season.

1. The record setting offense would naturally regress following a once in a decade type season. They would still be productive, but expecting the same production was not probable. Improvements were necessary with offensive depth and starting OT. Neither were addressed. The hope was for Daryl Williams to over take Remmers, a more threatening TE to replace Dickson, and CAP to overtake the Fozzy/Tolbert monster. Neither panned out. Not addressed for improvement.
2. The defense would need to be consistent or better to make up for the expected regression of the offense.
3. Charles Johnson needed to be a rotational back up.
4. The rookie infused secondary would struggle.
5. KB would need some time to continue his development and regain his powerful play coming back from injury.
6. Remmers and Oher would still struggle with the edge rush.

So, why were NONE of these known issues addressed in the off season? If the front office addressed at least half of these known issues, the season would look much better. Instead, the front office did nothing to improve the team or keep them competitive while the Falcons, Bucs, and Saints all improved in the off season.

That is what was known before training camp began. The front office has no excuses and the coaches have excuses now because of the do nothing front office.

By a wise huddler

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, Major wRecktum said:

It would help your case if you didn't include players who never played/ got cut due to injuries...

Yeah. Let's not pay attention to any of the faults or misses of the GM you adore. Be glad he did not include all the draft picks wasted to pick these players at higher spots in the draft, or that he average 5 draft picks a year. That would make it look much worse for Gettleman.

1 hour ago, thomas96 said:

It'll be interesting when they are a huge part of the foundation of our defense not too long from now with no TD or KK.

Hope is grand. Reality says you are wrong. I am willing to bet none of these players with the exception of Star are on Gettleman's radar to have long term careers with the Panthers past their rookie contract (if they even see the end of their rookie contract).

52 minutes ago, My Goodness My Guinness said:

Boston and Bene were okay picks. Boston is okay and Bene made some big plays for us while he was here. Also for value Klein was a great pick. The dude would be a starter for half the teams in the NFL. 

Bene was an admitted bust by the front office.

Boston is depth and should never be starting. The fact he has to start shows Gettleman either is forcing his picks to be played by the coach, or he has no idea of how bad the pick was for the team.

The talk about Klein starting is just continued hope for everything Gettleman. Klein at best will be a career back up. No one is going to start a LB that is an immediate target for any offense in the league. Klein would not even start for the Browns. Anyone who is forced to start Klein will immediately be looking for his replacement in the next draft.

Mayo > Klein and Mayo is not a capable starter at the NFL level.