Casserly says Carolina takes...

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, Bronn said:

I meant that, if I don't think he's even worthy of a 7th round pick, I don't think there's any chance/way we take him at #8 when there are better players on the board that will be successful longer in the NFL.

Totally agree at #8, but it's insane not to take that guy with a late round pick for football reasons. I'm not sold on him as an every down NFL RB, but the guy definitely has a ton of potential and would be a much more dynamic option than Fozzy in that change of pace RB role. I just wouldn't spend a pick in the first two rounds on a guy to play that role unless we're planning to really expand that role.

[Swaggasaurus]

36 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Thomas seems like a very safe pick with a high floor.  Everyone gets caught up in sack numbers but the ability to play the run is going to be factored in more then some think. 

Also you can't go wrong with positional value with a DE.

take a look at his highlights for 2016. Other than one play against UNC, he's got a OLB to his outside and is playing 5tech. He's not edge rushing. He's basically playing DT in all his splash plays and going against a guard. This guy has no game footage that shows he displays 4-3 end tools. This guy will really excel in a 3-4 scheme, but is not a fit for us.

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, Swaggasaurus said:

take a look at his highlights for 2016. Other than one play against UNC, he's got a OLB to his outside and is playing 5tech. He's not edge rushing. He's basically playing DT in all his splash plays and going against a guard. This guy has no game footage that shows he displays 4-3 end tools. This guy will really excel in a 3-4 scheme, but is not a fit for us.

That doesn't necessarily mean he can't do it, could be he just wasn't asked to do it in their scheme.

I'm guessing after the combine he might be viewed as more explosive.  I could see him comparing favorable to CJ. What if he measures 5lbs heavier, one inch taller, and faster in all the speed drills than CJ would people view him different?

I agree that a 3-4 scheme might be better for him, I just think he might be more productive as a LDE in a 4-3 than some people think.

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, Swaggasaurus said:

take a look at his highlights for 2016. Other than one play against UNC, he's got a OLB to his outside and is playing 5tech. He's not edge rushing. He's basically playing DT in all his splash plays and going against a guard. This guy has no game footage that shows he displays 4-3 end tools. This guy will really excel in a 3-4 scheme, but is not a fit for us.

Actually, he displayed the traits to be a dominant DE in a 4-3.  Hand usage, get off, power, bull rush, variety of pass rushing techniques, speed, quickness, getting around the edge, run-pass recognition,  drive, relentlessness...all ideal traits for a 4-3 DE, and all traits he displayed in those highlights (as well as in any game he played if you had the opportunity to watch Stanford). 

Honestly, I think based on what we know about Gettleman, he will be a serious consideration at #8, no matter who else is available.  I still think he would take Fournette simply because he's a once in a generation talent at RB, but if they have concerns about his long-term health, or if he's not there, I think Thomas might just be the choice...even above Adams since Gettleman values DL over DB's and both are needs.

[LinvilleGorge]

Count me among those not completely sold on Thomas as a 4-3 edge rusher. Definitely looks more suited to a 3-4 DE role or a few more buffet trips and play 4-3 three technique DT.

[Swaggasaurus]

4 hours ago, Woodie said:

Actually, he displayed the traits to be a dominant DE in a 4-3.  Hand usage, get off, power, bull rush, variety of pass rushing techniques, speed, quickness, getting around the edge, run-pass recognition,  drive, relentlessness...all ideal traits for a 4-3 DE, and all traits he displayed in those highlights (as well as in any game he played if you had the opportunity to watch Stanford). 

Honestly, I think based on what we know about Gettleman, he will be a serious consideration at #8, no matter who else is available.  I still think he would take Fournette simply because he's a once in a generation talent at RB, but if they have concerns about his long-term health, or if he's not there, I think Thomas might just be the choice...even above Adams since Gettleman values DL over DB's and both are needs.

In the vid I posted he doesn't get around the edge. He has a guy who has contain outside of him and releases inside. I've watched his game, I posted his splash reel to educate some of you on how he plays. I see not everyone understands what they are looking at. Not once does he rush outside when he has contain in the splash reel and is even lined up over the ball in a good amount of them. Does he have power, speed, awareness, smarts, motor, and hand usage? Oh hell yeah. Can he beat an OT around the edge  as a 4-3 end? I don't know because he's never done it. His game is a better version of Kony in college

[rippadonn]

It takes time for a DE to come into their own so as far as plug and play, help the team NOW, I see why most of the experts have us picking a RB.

The only sure 4-3 at the top of the draft that has the length and weight for the next level is Garrett. I just wouldn't spend a top ten on a guy that may take three years to get NFL strong and NFL savvy. Much rather get a vet or two and draft a couple guys to develop.

Some of the DE's further down have the measurables NFL covets in their edge rushers. Great draft for our needs as a franchise. Hope Dave gets busy.

[Woodie]

3 hours ago, Swaggasaurus said:

In the vid I posted he doesn't get around the edge. He has a guy who has contain outside of him and releases inside. I've watched his game, I posted his splash reel to educate some of you on how he plays. I see not everyone understands what they are looking at. Not once does he rush outside when he has contain in the splash reel and is even lined up over the ball in a good amount of them. Does he have power, speed, awareness, smarts, motor, and hand usage? Oh hell yeah. Can he beat an OT around the edge  as a 4-3 end? I don't know because he's never done it. His game is a better version of Kony in college

Don't tell people they don't know what they are looking at when you only see what you want to see.  I get that you want someone else, and that's fine, but he absolutely does have the tools to be a very good 4-3 DE. 

The thing you are missing is that he played primarily DE in a 3-4 system and occasionally moved inside.  So, you are basing your whole argument on the scheme he played in, not the traits he displayed.  Listen to the experts, and the common theme is that he is scheme diverse and can play anywhere along the line.   

[LinvilleGorge]

The common theme with the "experts" is that they have the same amount of say in NFL personnel decision as the rest of us. None. They're either pure media personalities, former players, or former coaches/front office guys who got poo canned because they were terrible. It's all for entertainment purposes only. Same as our discussions here.

[Swaggasaurus]

9 minutes ago, Woodie said:

Don't tell people they don't know what they are looking at when you only see what you want to see.  I get that you want someone else, and that's fine, but he absolutely does have the tools to be a very good 4-3 DE. 

The thing you are missing is that he played primarily DE in a 3-4 system and occasionally moved inside.  So, you are basing your whole argument on the scheme he played in, not the traits he displayed.  Listen to the experts, and the common theme is that he is scheme diverse and can play anywhere along the line.   

I'm seeing what is there man. You are speaking about something that you have no visual evidence of. I don't give a fug what the "experts" say. I like the kid for sure, but I have fears of drafting a guy to do something that I haven't seen him do. It's like drafting a Baylor WR who only ran go routes to be the guy who moves the sticks. He is fast with great hands. Can he do it, maybe, he has the tools, it just scares me. I will support him and the organization if we draft Thomas. I just have concerns because he has not played the position, that is a fact, not my opinion. I'm also not stumping for another player, we have tons of options. 

[Woodie]

19 minutes ago, Swaggasaurus said:

I'm seeing what is there man. You are speaking about something that you have no visual evidence of. I don't give a fug what the "experts" say. I like the kid for sure, but I have fears of drafting a guy to do something that I haven't seen him do. It's like drafting a Baylor WR who only ran go routes to be the guy who moves the sticks. He is fast with great hands. Can he do it, maybe, he has the tools, it just scares me. I will support him and the organization if we draft Thomas. I just have concerns because he has not played the position, that is a fact, not my opinion. I'm also not stumping for another player, we have tons of options. 

I truly don't have a problem with this point.  It's logical, and is a valid perspective.  However, if you look at the traits he displayed, they translate very well to 3-4 DE, 4-3 3-tech, or even 4-3 DE.  Yes, there is visual evidence of these traits.  It's there for all to see, even in those cut-ups you posted.  If you're looking for visual evidence of what he can do in a 4-3, well, that would be tough to find since he didn't play in that scheme.  But that doesn't mean his skills don't translate.

He demonstrated everything you would want from a 4-3 DE.  He beat tackles inside, he beat them outside, he beat them with speed, quickness, power, and technique.  Does it mean he is a finished product and can't improve?  Of course not, but the same can be said of every player in the draft.  But what you seem to be using as part of the argument against him in this role, I see as a huge plus that I believe will intrigue Gettleman and Rivera.  And that's his versatility.  In addition to beating tackles, he beat guards, centers, and made plays up the middle and all over the line.  That doesn't mean he's best inside, just that he is versatile enough to dominate wherever we he plays.

He's not my top choice in this draft, but I think he is going to be very good in whatever position he ends up, so I would not be disappointed in the least if we take him...even over guys I want more.  And I really see him as a guy that Gettleman could fall in love with.  He checks every box, and is a high character guy.   

 

[Jon Snow]

Casserole is an idiot so his thoughts are pointless.  That is all.

[Shocker]

21 hours ago, Woodie said:

Actually, he displayed the traits to be a dominant DE in a 4-3.  Hand usage, get off, power, bull rush, variety of pass rushing techniques, speed, quickness, getting around the edge, run-pass recognition,  drive, relentlessness...all ideal traits for a 4-3 DE, and all traits he displayed in those highlights (as well as in any game he played if you had the opportunity to watch Stanford). 

Honestly, I think based on what we know about Gettleman, he will be a serious consideration at #8, no matter who else is available.  I still think he would take Fournette simply because he's a once in a generation talent at RB, but if they have concerns about his long-term health, or if he's not there, I think Thomas might just be the choice...even above Adams since Gettleman values DL over DB's and both are needs.

What he said,  although I wouldnt bang the table to take him at 8 with the depth of DE in this draft.. The more i think about it i hope we move down if Fornette goes before us.  Find a dance patrner for someone wanting to jump in front of Buffalo, get another early round pick.