The Panthers biggest dilemmas at #8 - A good team, a deep draft, and uncertainty in the top seven picks... Or "The case for trading down"

[Manos]

You'd have to have a really convincing argument for me to wanna trade down.
I believe this team is good enough that we're not going to have top 10 picks all that often. Since we have one now, I'm loathe to give it up.

If the draft goes
Garret
Thomas
Adams
Fournette
Howard
Lattimore
Hooker

Then I'd be begging Cleveland to trade with us because I don't see any 8th overall value at a position of need in that scenario. At 12 taking someone like Ross, Barnett, Taco, Williams, McDowell etc makes more sense and is less of a reach, plus adding more picks doesn't hurt.

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[CarolinaSamurai]

5 minutes ago, Manos said:

If the draft goes
Garret
Thomas
Adams
Fournette
Howard
Lattimore
Hooker

Then I'd be begging Cleveland to trade with us because I don't see any 8th overall value at a position of need in that scenario. At 12 taking someone like Ross, Barnett, Taco, Williams, McDowell etc makes more sense and is less of a reach, plus adding more picks doesn't hurt.

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You can only take 53 plus PS to the promisedland. And most picks won't make it to the PS in this year's draft before another team jumps them. More picks can hurt.

[Mr. Scot]

48 minutes ago, Bronn said:

I guess this begs the question then, are there 8 guys in this draft that you think can come in and start day 1, and be a fixture on our team for years to come? If so, I'd like to see those 8 guys, mostly because I don't know we can upgrade our starters, right now at least, other than at SS, LG, FB, DE, and MAYBE WR2. The only ones of those positions I see potentially being there and worthy at #8 are SS (Adams,) DE (Garrett and  Thomas) and WR (Williams and Davis.) Maybe someone picks Allen in there. Maybe someone picks a QB or two. Maybe someone takes Fournette. Maybe a CB comes off the board. Then we'll get one of those guys in parenthesis. But what if those 5 guys are gone. Is it settling if RB isn't on your starter-replacement list and you take Fournette? Is it reaching if you settle for the third best DE prospect. Is it wasting it if you get the best TE but you don't really need him or you could have got him later?

The "8 guys" scenario assumes everyone ahead of us would draft at a position we need. That's far from a certainty, especially with teams having needs at quarterback.

I do believe there'll be a worthy player at #8. If the team feels otherwise, I'm sure they'll act appropriately.

[Tarheels23]

1 hour ago, Bronn said:

I guess this begs the question then, are there 8 guys in this draft that you think can come in and start day 1, and be a fixture on our team for years to come? If so, I'd like to see those 8 guys, mostly because I don't know we can upgrade our starters, right now at least, other than at SS, LG, FB, DE, and MAYBE WR2. The only ones of those positions I see potentially being there and worthy at #8 are SS (Adams,) DE (Garrett and  Thomas) and WR (Williams and Davis.) Maybe someone picks Allen in there. Maybe someone picks a QB or two. Maybe someone takes Fournette. Maybe a CB comes off the board. Then we'll get one of those guys in parenthesis. But what if those 5 guys are gone. Is it settling if RB isn't on your starter-replacement list and you take Fournette? Is it reaching if you settle for the third best DE prospect. Is it wasting it if you get the best TE but you don't really need him or you could have got him later?

I can make the argument that we need a 2nd TE, more than we need an RB. With Tolbert being gone, Our 2nd TE will play a huge role in the running game, playing several positions ie; FB, HB, TE. 

Oh and that Will route that Cam never seem to be able to connect with Dickson, well Howard made a livin off them bad boys. 

[joemac]

We all know some crazy poo is gonna go down in the front of the draft. Happens every year. Some GM out there has fallen in love with someone we haven't even considered. Who thought we were gonna take Vernon Butler, or Shaq Thompson for that matter. We will have a stud available to us at 8, I believe. I'm all for staying late at 8, and trying to get back into the first round somehow.

[Carl Spackler]

I will be disappointed if we don't get Fournette

I will be disappointed

 

[burnettwilliam23]

Hope we can get an A1 TE and possibly use the trade up with that ealy trade to NE and snatch McCaffery if he isn't gone already, then get either Legget Or Howard a bit later in the draft

 

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[Carl Spackler]

balls

[tiger7_88]

1 hour ago, Tarheels23 said:

I can make the argument that we need a 2nd TE, more than we need an RB. With Tolbert being gone, Our 2nd TE will play a huge role in the running game, playing several positions ie; FB, HB, TE. 

Oh and that Will route that Cam never seem to be able to connect with Dickson, well Howard made a livin off them bad boys. 

I 100% agree with this thought.

My very favorite player in this draft is S Adams.

If he's not there at #8, my preference at that point would be either of the top Bama boys, Allen or Howard.

(Note: The above comment presumes that DE Garrett doesn't experience a "Lotulelei" on draft day.  If THAT somehow miraculously happened, then running the card with "Garrett" on it to the podium should be made in record time.)

[Manos]

You can only take 53 plus PS to the promisedland. And most picks won't make it to the PS in this year's draft before another team jumps them. More picks can hurt.

I only consider about 36 players currently under contract to be locks for the roster, the other 17ish spots should be completely up for grabs, whether it's rookies or someone else. So having extra picks it's still a good thing, and they don't even have to come in this draft, we could always trade for future assets if the opportunity arises.

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[Ace_Aladdin]

4 hours ago, Bronn said:

Much has been made about the Panthers and the #8 overall pick. We're still over a month away from the draft, and most of today's mainstream NFL discussion is about who's going where, and who's mocking who to our team.

Our biggest obstacle, right now, is that we're a relatively good team on paper, and are one year removed from one of the best seasons ever seen in the league. We've done a good job bringing in guys for our most immediate needs via free agency, and we're setting ourselves up to have no glaring weaknesses heading into the draft in April. But, as I move more into the discussion of the draft, I think we've got our share of hurdles that might make it very interesting to watch when the clock starts ticking. Picking #8 comes with its share of headaches this year.

First off, it looks rather unpredictable how picks 1-7 are going to shape up. The general feeling I get right now is that there are going to be some moves made, either before or during the draft, that shake things up a bit. It could be a very entertaining first round. This makes it incredibly hard to forecast who is going to be left on the board when the dust settles. A couple teams at the top of the draft are prime candidates to draft a QB, but none of the QBs this year are really top 10 talent, in my opinion. Do the teams that want those QBs just take them early? Do they trade down, allowing someone that's targeting another player to move up? It is all so hard to predict that the only thing I feel comfortable saying with certainty is that, right now, the Panthers will be on the clock after pick #7 comes in.

Draft picks, especially top 10 draft picks, need to be home runs. Many of the players mocked to us at #8 are guys that I think will be home runs. The problem is, though, that the consensus top guys for us are a RB and a SS. Both those positions are incredibly deep and talented in this draft, and are positions that the Panthers aren't necessarily hurting for right now. One could argue that those two players, Fournette and Adams, are not only the only top 10 worthy candidates at those positions in the draft, but the only first round graded versions of those players. The talent drop off behind them at their positions is pretty steep, but there is loads of talent out there at those positions after those guys. I feel like both Fournette and Adams are special players who possess talent that only comes along once a decade or a half decade. If either make it to #8, I think they will be the pick. If both make it to #8, it is going to be hard to choose. The consolation, however, is that for both Fournette or Adams, there are players at both positions very deep into the draft, after the first round, that will be very good players in the NFL. Miss out on Fournette? Take Perine or Brian Hill later. Miss out on Adams? Obi and Budda say "hi."

There are also guys in this draft that nobody can really seem to come to a consensus on as to how soon they should be drafted. Jabrill Peppers, OJ Howard, Christian McCaffrey, and even guys like Reuben Foster are currently cogs in everyone's gears. All have remarkable traits and athleticism, but nobody knows how soon a team that needs, or doesn't really need a guy at those positions would take one of them. I've seen OJ Howard, for instance, mocked from a top 5 pick all the way to the end of the first round. I've seen Jabrill Peppers recently falling into the second round. How do you even try to figure out some of these guys, other than knowing that they will immediately upgrade your team?

This brings me to my next point. Defensive linemen. This draft is pretty deep along the defensive line, too, but the defensive end crop has one freak of nature, one other sure-to-be guaranteed starter day one, and then a handful of guys that have strengths and weaknesses that will spot start early and need some work to develop. The problem is that, once those guys develop, they are probably going to be pretty doggone good too. On the defensive tackle front, there aren't really many stud nose tackles in this draft, but there are some good DTs there that have traits that will allow them to rotate positions during the course of the game. The top DT prospect, for instance, is also probably a top 5 DE prospect, and there are a slew of other guys out there that have similar skill sets. If I had to list a top 10 of this year's draft as far as overall talent goes, probably 6-7 of the guys on that list would be DL.

There's also some very good CBs in this draft, and a few of those could very well be considered top 10 talent by some teams. But much like the talented guys on the defensive front, one could argue that the Panthers don't really need a CB that bad, after spending three picks last draft trying to shore up the position.

Because of the talent at so many positions, I could see teams moving all over to get the exact guys they want. From QBs to unique guys like Peppers. I wouldn't even be surprised, at this point, if Garrett slid somehow (because of QBs) and a team traded up to get him. It is going to be chaos.

At pick #8, the Panthers are in prime position to get a player that will help them immediately if they stay put. In my opinion, however, we could very well also be in the position that there are several guys we want and that fit that criteria still on the board. I think this leads me to the conclusion that our best option, at that point, would be to trade down and gain more ammo to move back into the first round later. We would be gambling that at least one of the guys we would have taken at #8 would still be on the board wherever we slide down to, while also hoping to get another first round talent guy we like. As others here and elsewhere have pointed out, we already picked up a bargaining chip by adding NE's second rounder. In the process we lost our own third rounder, and currently have a pretty big gap between our second and third round picks. In a deep draft, the more picks you can have in the middle, the better.

Ultimately, wouldn't you all think it was a big win if we came out of this draft with Leonard Fournette AND Ryan Ramczyk? Jamal Adams AND Corey Davis? It is greedy thinking that we could come out with two picks that people are currently salivating over in the first round, but there could be a touch of realism in the belief and it might be possible to do.

TLDR: Panthers should trade down because, right now, the draft looks pretty chaotic and unpredictable. No mocked pick is a guarantee, and there is a load of talent in this draft. Also, in the positions of need in which most people mock the Panthers' picks, there's a ton of talent way later than pick #8. We should trade down a bit, and pick up extra ammo to allow us to have two first round picks instead of one.

Nope , why trade down and get lesser talented player. We are gonna be in position to draft either Fournette or Howard. 

If Panthers draft Fournette at 8 and Howard drops we shoud trade with Cleveland for 12th pick and grab Howard. 

[Growl]

Trading down is a terrible idea, much as is always the case.

[AU-panther]

I'm not saying we need to trade down and acquire picks but I'm not a fan of all the trading up people want to do.  This idea that we are only a few players away is a dangerous slope to be on.

Not every player has to be an all pro starter to be a successful draft pick. A quality back up on a fixed low cost salary for four years isn't a bad thing.

How many of our backups are older guys on one or two year deals?  You save 500k here and there that might be the extra you need to sign one of your high dollar guys.  Or what if we wouldn't have traded up a few years ago and used those picks for corners?  Maybe we wouldn't have been desperate when we let Norman walk.

As the free agent dollars continue to escalate the rookie deals just become values.  Seams like the smart teams will use that to their advantage.

 

[SeaMonster]

Trading back 4-6 slots could make a lot of sense if someone would send another 2nd round pick.

Picking up a DE, OT, WR and RB in the first two rounds would go a long way to helping out.