Post-KB Trade Aftermath Thoughts and Observations

[ickmule]

29 minutes ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

we completed screwed up our chance at true greatness and it pisses me off. I'm not just saying that because of KB. KB doesn't make or break out. I'm talking about the grand scheme of things and how we have handled business the past few years. We had our window and it has been slammed in our face 

That happened after the super bowl. This franchise has done zero positive things since.  

[Mr. Scot]

There are a couple of inherent problems with the "never missed on first rounders" argument. 

One, you can't just ignore that first round picks were traded away for guys like Everette Brown. Those picks count too. 

Two, there were entire drafts where the first round pick was the only pick worth anything. That's not a feather in anyone's cap. 

Three, on more than one occasion, another team saved us from messing up. Multiple reports have said that  Hurney had Mark Barron rated higher than Kuechly. Even worse, Hurney himself admitted that if the Panthers had been  drafting number one the year Peppers was taken, David Carr would have been a Panther from the beginning. 

But the biggest issue of all?

Let's take about Cam Newton, for example. I hear a lot of people say "hey, Hurney got us Newton". To which I always ask "And why were we in position to draft Newton in the first place?"

Because the team Hurney built the prior season was the absolute worst in the league. 

And a lot of those other picks that were taken high? Same reason. 

You can't look at draft success without remembering why you were in the spot you were. That's basically like saying a guy did a great job dunking a basketball and ignoring the fact that he was standing on a step ladder. 

Hurney isn't good, guys. 

If you still don't see that after today, it's likely you just don't want to. 

 

[ColumbusCounty]

Ginn, Philly, Cotchery, Funchess

vs

Funchess, Sheppard, Bersin, Samuel ..

Imo, closest we can get to 2015 -receiver wise...as poo as it sounds:

Clay #1, Samuel or Shep #2, Funchess or Bersin #3... 

Add in Mcaffrey = that might just work ...

Funch is just not a #1 to me... not ideal anyway...not fast enough or physical.

Hurney... silly little guy

[Proudiddy]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

There are a couple of inherent problems with the "never missed on first rounders" argument. 

One, you can't just ignore that first round picks were traded away for guys like Everette Brown. Those picks count too. 

Two, there were entire drafts where the first round pick was the only pick worth anything. That's not a feather in anyone's cap. 

Three, on more than one occasion, another team saved us from messing up. Multiple reports have said that  Hurney had Mark Barron rated higher than Kuechly. Even worse, Hurney himself admitted that if the Panthers had been  drafting number one the year Peppers was taken, David Carr would have been a Panther from the beginning. 

But the biggest issue of all?

Let's take about Cam Newton, for example. I hear a lot of people say "hey, Hurney got us Newton". To which I always ask "And why were we in position to draft Newton in the first place?"

Because the team Hurney built the prior season was the absolute worst in the league. 

And a lot of those other picks that were taken high? Same reason. 

You can't look at draft success without remembering why you were in the spot you were. That's basically like saying a guy did a great job dunking a basketball and ignoring the fact that he was standing on a step ladder. 

Hurney isn't good, guys. 

If you still don't see that after today, it's likely you just don't want to. 

 

I have made it clear how i feel about him.  But, it is a matter of perspective.  If you choose to hate everything he has done, you aren't being very objective yourself (not you, but a general you all).  For all those bad seasons that led to high picks, coaching and executives also have an influence on outcomes.  The same crowd that won't give him credit for good picks completely ignores Gettleman whiffing on all of his first-rounders because he hit on some mid-level guys.  They pretty much even out, except Gettleman won with Hurney's core, like it or not.

TBH, now that we've revisited life with Hurney, I will say I think Gettleman was better at in-year roster management.  But overall, they both had/have huge flaws and are on the same footing in my opinion for both of their shortsighted shortcomings that affected us long-term.  Honestly, we are just a poorly run organization.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Proudiddy said:

I have made it clear how i feel about him.  But, it is a matter of perspective.  If you choose to hate everything he has done, you aren't being very objective yourself (not you, but a general you all).  For all those bad seasons that led to high picks, coaching and executives also have an influence on outcomes.  The same crowd that won't give him credit for good picks completely ignores Gettleman whiffing on all of his first-rounders because he hit on some mid-level guys.  They pretty much even out, except Gettleman won with Hurney's core, like it or not.

TBH, now that we've revisited life with Hurney, I will say I think Gettleman was better at in-year roster management.  But overall, they both had/have huge flaws and are on the same footing in my opinion for both of their shortsighted shortcomings that affected us long-term.  Honestly, we are just a poorly run organization.

I've yet to see a GM be perfect, or a coach, or a player, or anyone.  Even Belichick makes stupid decisions. 

I don't judge by who's perfect. I judge my who's better. And the best criteria for doing that is winning.

The most successful winning stretch we had as a franchise was under Gettleman. What he accomplished in three years took Marty Hurney eleven. There's no spin in the world that changes that.

But hey, it looks like Marty's gonna have ten more seasons or so to try and build a better legacy, so... 

[X-Clown]

5 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

I have made it clear how i feel about him.  But, it is a matter of perspective.  If you choose to hate everything he has done, you aren't being very objective yourself (not you, but a general you all).  For all those bad seasons that led to high picks, coaching and executives also have an influence on outcomes.  The same crowd that won't give him credit for good picks completely ignores Gettleman whiffing on all of his first-rounders because he hit on some mid-level guys.  They pretty much even out, except Gettleman won with Hurney's core, like it or not.

TBH, now that we've revisited life with Hurney, I will say I think Gettleman was better at in-year roster management.  But overall, they both had/have huge flaws and are on the same footing in my opinion for both of their shortsighted shortcomings that affected us long-term.  Honestly, we are just a poorly run organization.

Are you really saying Star was a “whiff” of a first round pick for DG? 

[stratopanther]

Are folks trying to say hurney outsmarted beane here? Its not a coincidence guys. We got swindled by one of our former employees.

[Snake]

46 minutes ago, Panthers8969 said:

yeah this is the biggest thing for me. If we then traded for Hilton (who was on the block) then id be really happy about the trade. Instead..

That's a trade that would have made since. Now we lost our best WR and have a 7th round pick to show for it... 

[Proudiddy]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I've yet to see a GM be perfect, or a coach, or a player, or anyone.  Even Belichick makes stupid decisions. 

I don't judge by who's perfect. I judge my who's better. And the best criteria for doing that is winning.

The most successful winning stretch we had as a franchise was under Gettleman. What he accomplished in three years took Marty Hurney eleven. There's no spin in the world that changes that.

But hey, it looks like Marty's gonna have ten more seasons or so to try and build a better legacy, so... 

You're probably right, but for me, i just can't get past the blunders that were, in the situations with Smitty and Norman (and more recently rumored, Gross).  I dont judge by perfection either, it is the enemy of good.  But, despite the playoff appearances in his tenure, those were shortsighted moves and had an exponentially bad effect on our team long-term.  So, aside of who drafted better, his handling of those situations cost us invaluable time, money, and resources to replace - and in some cases, we still haven't ecovered.  So, while you're right in your criteria of how to judge them, for me, we're still dealing with unknown variables and outcomes that affect our success or lack of it, as a result of his mistakes.  Hurney only compounds that with his bumbleheadedness.  So, again, I just have to fall back on my previous statement...  we are a poorly run organization, and I'm not happy with where we are or where we are going.

[Fright]

This team is bigger than KB. I remember reading some doom and gloom posts similar to this when KB went down in ‘15. Funny how that turned out. Cam is the heart of this team, KB is replaceable. 

[X-Clown]

19 minutes ago, Fright said:

This team is bigger than KB. I remember reading some doom and gloom posts similar to this when KB went down in ‘15. Funny how that turned out. Cam is the heart of this team, KB is replaceable. 

So we just get rid of Benjamin and our offense instantly goes back to 2015 with no other improvements?

[Fright]

Just now, X-Clown said:

So we just get rid of Benjamin and our offense instantly goes back to 2015 with no other improvements?

I didn’t say that, but there won’t be any stare down force throws to KB now, which is a start to getting Cam back to MVP form.

[The Huddler]

All i know is that if you are sitting here thinking who was the better GM....

 

... youre a fugin retard and this is what your window lickin, ass sshittin, booger eatin, unable to self feedin GETS. 

 

 

[X-Clown]

7 minutes ago, Fright said:

I didn’t say that, but there won’t be any stare down force throws to KB now, which is a start to getting Cam back to MVP form.

How did that work out in the saints game where Benjamin got hurt in the first quarter and was out the rest of the game? What about trading Benjamin turns matt kalil into a decent tackle, helps Tyler Larsen stay off roller skates or turns Russell Shepard/Curtis Samuel into Ted Ginn?