Who has been most underwhelming?

[Adb6368]

Torrey Smith still didn’t impress me in his 3rd preseason game. Had a chance to make a really good play and couldn’t bring it in

[jimfear]

Curtis has impressed me the most, particularly given his injury. I think he is the most dangerous WR on the roster based on the combination of speed, YAC, and his improvement in catching and securing the football.

Vern has been almost invisible. Also haven't been impressed with Bradberry, Hall, or Captain.

[PantherGuy]

On 8/23/2018 at 11:47 PM, Yaboychris28 said:

Torrey Smith spends more time worrying about politics than caring about being productive with his actual job. Sounds like most anti-trump supporters in a nutshell 

The tinderbox is calling your name

[Black&BlueBubba]

17 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Disagree.

Samuel can easy be a deep threat as well. He’s already got his release down, knows how to stack against press + avoid jams and get separation. That big play he had week 2 was a result of him beating press with a good release and getting open. Would’ve gone for six had it been Cam throwing.

He’s more than fast enough and good enough technique wise to be a solid deep threat.

You can argue his hands and that’s fair based off last season, but same argument can be made for Torrey Smith.

Byrd I do agree though.

I have seen Samuel in person twice this year and he stands out as being the quickest and fastest guy on the field by a mile.  He needs playing time period. He’s gonna be a good one. 

[Snake]

16 hours ago, Icege said:

It is threads like these where you read things like "Butler needs to perform or is a bust" and are reminded how desperate some are to flaunt that they dont know poo about football.

Butler is a bust for a first round pick. I mean he's not even making splash plays at this point. Unlike guys like Doss and Cox Jr who have done so with out the first round tag. 

[The Lone Panther]

Smith hasn't impressed me, but I'm not ready to call his signing a bust.  I'll wait and see what he does during an actual game with meaning.  But for argument sakes, if he ends up being a no-show during the regular season and a team with injuries at receiver is interested in a trade, I would be cool with it. Might as well, right? 

[Moose Hoover]

sigh...

your mother...

sigh.

[Wolfcop]

The problem with Smith is, he worth his salary to keep his experience on the roster. Based on talent alone, he probably doesn't get a roster spot at the moment. And, if you keep him on the team, you will have younger, more talented WRs sitting behind him. That is going to be a decison for the staff to make in the next few weeks. I don't think his political views will factor into the decision either way. It's about getting the best 53 on the roster.

[4Corners]

On 8/23/2018 at 8:04 PM, Hotsauce said:

The All-Pro “Insider” section of the huddle

Never understood why folks pay for “premium” content on the internet. You see it a lot with the college sports forums. Waste of money. 

[4Corners]

6 hours ago, Snake said:

Butler is a bust for a first round pick. I mean he's not even making splash plays at this point. Unlike guys like Doss and Cox Jr who have done so with out the first round tag. 

Big year for Butler this season. I didn’t like the pick to begin with but the guy certainly looks like he isn’t going to be on this team much longer. 

[BigSyke]

13 hours ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

I have seen Samuel in person twice this year and he stands out as being the quickest and fastest guy on the field by a mile.  He needs playing time period. He’s gonna be a good one. 

 

Most times Ohio state puts out solid wr. He looks like he can be a similar player to Emmanuel Sanders if he continues to improve.

[Icege]

On 8/25/2018 at 2:00 AM, Snake said:

Butler is a bust for a first round pick. I mean he's not even making splash plays at this point. Unlike guys like Doss and Cox Jr who have done so with out the first round tag. 

Quoted from another thread where I addressed this already:

On 8/12/2018 at 6:23 PM, Icege said:

Butler wasn't a luxury pick, he was insurance at #30 in case we lost KK. Look at the previous Gettleman drafts and the goings on of that draft. Dwan Edwards was no longer with the team after providing quality veteran depth and KK was entering the final year of his contract. The draft where Butler took place was in April 2016 and KK didn't resign until April 2017 (franchise tagged in Feb 2017). We can see now that KK was the more valued of him & Star (and rightfully so), which meant that Gettleman was going to be able to draft a replacement for KK and allow Butler to spell him should he have played out the tag. Shaq had been taken the previous season as insurance for losing TD, as well as Funchess in case of losing KB. KB tore his ACL and the team went 15-1 + a Super Bowl trip, so the strategy looked like it paid off. Much harder to make it work though when he cuts the best CB in franchise history (if you don't agree then you're just ok with being wrong c('.'c)) less than 2 weeks before the draft after the #2 CB retires. Thanks Dave, that move was dildos.

Star's 2015 season he missed two games with the stress reaction in his foot. As a 3rd year starter in 14 games (533 defensive snaps, 52 special teams snaps), Lotulelei's stats were 13 tackles, 9 assists, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble, and two pass deflections. In comparison, Butler's rookie season (2016) as a back-up playing in 10 games (225 defensive snaps, 42 special teams snaps) 5 tackles, 8 assists, 1.5 sack, 1 pass deflection, and two blocked field goals. The difference between a rookie DT minus 6 games vs. a 3rd year DT minus 2 games was:

-8 tackles
-1 assists
-1 pass deflection
-1 forced fumbles
+.5 sack
+2 blocked field goals

This was the statistical difference with Star also having an additional 308 defensive and 10 special teams snaps. 

On a per snap basis...

2015 Star (Year 3)
Tackles: 0.022
Assists: 0.015
Pass Deflections: 0.003
Forced Fumbles: 0.002
Sacks: 0.002
Blocked FGs: 0

2016 Butler (Rookie)
Tackles: 0.019
Assists: 0.03
Pass Deflections: 0.004
Forced Fumbles: 0
Sacks:  0.006
Blocked FGs: 0.007

Difference between 2016 Butler vs. 2015 Lotulelei
-0.003 tackles
+0.015 assists
+0.001 pass deflections
-0.002 forced fumbles
+0.004 sacks
+0.007 blocked field goals

Butler's 2017 with 8 tackles, 5 assists, 1 pass deflection, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles, and 0 blocked field goals? 294 defensive and 61 special teams snaps. If you want to call 3 more tackles, 3 less assists, 1.5 less sacks, and 2 less blocked field goals (with equal forced fumbles + pass deflections) with an additional 69 defensive & 19 specials teams snaps a sophomore slump... ok...

I mean... are we so desperate for Butler to start that we put Short on the bench? I'm not following. The narrative that it was a luxury pick is bullshit, and the narrative that he's done nothing is bullshit. Has he gotten as many opportunities? No. Is that 100% on him? No.

Granted this was in response to the idea that the pick was a luxury pick, but it also addresses supposed concerns with his performance. The narrative that there has been a lack thereof just is not supported by the data.

In preseason game 2 (didn't get to watch preseason game 3, so I can't comment on that one yet) he was regularly being double teamed but still getting pressure. He's got stats to compare to a perennial starter that nobody questioned whether or not they were worth the pick when we nabbed them even higher.  

[Snake]

31 minutes ago, Icege said:

Quoted from another thread where I addressed this already:

Granted this was in response to the idea that the pick was a luxury pick, but it also addresses supposed concerns with his performance. The narrative that there has been a lack thereof just is not supported by the data.

In preseason game 2 (didn't get to watch preseason game 3, so I can't comment on that one yet) he was regularly being double teamed but still getting pressure. He's got stats to compare to a perennial starter that nobody questioned whether or not they were worth the pick when we nabbed them even higher.  

I guess no player is a bust then. Just never given enough opportunity. 

[Icege]

2 minutes ago, Snake said:

I guess no player is a bust then. Just never given enough opportunity. 

Could you explain how you came to that conclusion from the data that was presented?