To Torrey, or not to Torrey

[Moo Daeng]

"Rationalize and deny" 

Wtf is this guy talking about. Pick one. They dont work together. 

[Ivan The Awesome]

Just a couple of years ago I remember people being worried about replacing Smith and having a #1 wr. Now we're worried about letting go of a WR not because weak at the position but because we're stacked. 

[KB_fan]

True confession time, I've spread false information. I feel like a total idiot....

Ignore my earlier comment in this thread about Russell Shepard balling out with the Giants yesterday. I didn't watch the game, but caught a clip on my phone of Baldy praising the Giants offense yesterday, and how Shepard was making play after play....I was mostly listening more than watching...

You probably know where this is going... I happened to forget all about a certain guy named STERLING Shepard (even though he was one of my draft crushes.) Yeah, Sterling was balling - 7/8 or something. Russell had 1 catch. (There should be a rule against having 2 guys with same name at same position!)

Nevermind and please forgive me for being stupid, at least when it comes to other teams. Hopefully I'm not so dumb about the Panthers.

[TheRumGone]

11 hours ago, AggieLean said:

Give Torrey one year, and let’s see if Samuel and Byrd can stay healthy. Plus, we plan on making a deep playoff run, and Torrey is a big game player. Keep him for the year. 5 Millie isn’t much at all

People need to realize this bolded part. Torrey is a big time player in big time moments. That cannot be taught. 

i dunno how people think after 3 preseason games we should just cut this dude. I get there being legit concern about online depth but there are things we can do to make room for o-line additions without cutting Torrey. Who I think is gonna make some big time plays for us.

[Manther]

1 hour ago, TheRumGone said:

People need to realize this bolded part. Torrey is a big time player in big time moments. That cannot be taught. 

i dunno how people think after 3 preseason games we should just cut this dude. I get there being legit concern about online depth but there are things we can do to make room for o-line additions without cutting Torrey. Who I think is gonna make some big time plays for us.

I'm not sure all of us were saying cut him.  We are paying him what we pay Peppers,  and Torry Smith is NO HOFer.   He hasn't gotten open and has dropped passes. Yes, I know its preseason, so its ok to suck.  But, his contract has no dead money.  We are overstocked at WR and might have to let one go, unless we work some special teams magic.

In the end, I was thinking more along the lines of a trade for some Oline depth, where we are getting very lean.  Maybe not now, but at some point in the season.  If we can keep him and still restock the oline, cool, but if we need to find cap space, which we have very little, Torry is the one to trade away.

[top dawg]

10 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I've been a Byrd critic, but even in that position I have to admit he's shown potential to be at the very least an effective return man.

If he were to have a breakout season, he could be an effective piece of the puzzle for several years to come.  Whereas with Smith, I don't think anybody believes he's got major potential beyond this season (I understand he's a free agent next year anyway).

So if you have to weigh the potential of Byrd for the future vs Smith as a known quantity about whom there are some reasonable doubts, which of those do you keep?

The big things that bothers me about Byrd is his small frame. He simply hasn't been durable. Smith has been kind of the poster child for durability. That being said, I'm not going to get too upset if they actually keep or cut one or the other, or both. I can see the pros and cons either way, and I don't think that one or even four preseason games and fan perceptions are necessarily close to what the coaches are thinking.

[Moo Daeng]

Smith is tied for 41 in the league in avg wr salary. Stop acting like we are paying him a lot.

The tail end of career salary that Peppers gets as a rotational DE isnt relavant to his salary.

[Darvinsun]

I say if it comes down to cutting a wr let it be Torrey. Veteran leadership wright can play that role plus outside of that what does he offer, but really I think we should keep all 6 and use based on opponents interchangeably. This team is thin but the way our line performed in this game I think we will be alright if no more injuries and some lineman return from injuries during the yr. This just forces backups to learn on the fly and get better and also SIT MATT K butt on the bench and be a back up.  Cause thats all he is and not sure if he is even worth that.

[Manther]

38 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

Smith is tied for 41 in the league in avg wr salary. Stop acting like we are paying him a lot.

The tail end of career salary that Peppers gets as a rotational DE isnt relavant to his salary.

Ahhh statistics. Comparing average yearly to one year contract is apples and oranges, but fine, I'll play.   

Yes, we also pay him more than 90% of the receivers in the league.  In 2018 he'll make more than Julian Edelman, Alshon Jeffery or Mike Wallace.  Yes, he makes about 400k less than Brandon Cooks, but he is NO Cooks.

The Eagles traded him for Worely who they immediately cut.

Look, we aren't calling for Torry's head.  He has underwhelmed in training camp and preseason.  Let the season start and see what happens.  If we manage to restock the Oline under cap and Torry excels, no one is going to complain.  

[Zaximus]

Samuel and Byrd have been the glass-men with injuries, I wouldn't risk cutting Smith and then one or both of them get injured.  

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, TheRumGone said:

People need to realize this bolded part. Torrey is a big time player in big time moments. That cannot be taught. 

Wouldn't argue that he was a big time player in the past.

Whether or not he still is one is debatable, and not just because of this preseason.

Smith was a big time receiver in Baltimore for sure, but he followed an unfortunate, all too common path of "get big contract, fail to live up to it" in San Francisco and wound up released two years into a five-year deal.

The Eagles got him on a more modest deal but also put him in a more modest role. Despite this, they too were prepared to release him until a better option presented itself. They didn't see paying five million to a guy who was the fourth receiver at best as a good investment.

Now that's our question to answer.

 

[Mr. Scot]

Might be worth watching this Thursday's game closely.

In the past, Rivera has been known to do things in Preseason Four strictly to make a point. So if, for example, we see a big long touchdown pass to Smith in the early going, that'd be Rivera's way of saying "See? He's a starter."

He'll ultimately do what he wants to anyway, but I'll be watching to see if something like this happens.

[JARROD]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Wouldn't argue that he was a big time player in the past.

Whether or not he still is one is debatable, and not just because of this preseason.

Smith was a big time receiver in Baltimore for sure, but he followed an unfortunate, all too common path of "get big contract, fail to live up to it" in San Francisco and wound up released two years into a five-year deal.

The Eagles got him on a more modest deal but also put him in a more modest role. Despite this, they too were prepared to release him until a better option presented itself. They didn't see paying five million to a guy who was the fourth receiver at best as a good investment.

Now that's our question to answer.

 

One could argue that in his first year at San Francisco-- with a downfield thrower like Kapernick he averaged 20 yards per reception, and after Kapernick was benched for Blaine the check down extraordinaire Gabbert that his stats just fell to notta,...

Looking at Phili, he averaged 16 yards per reception, mostly because of the end-- but again one could argue that Wentz is a much more complete quarterback than Foles obviously but is not the deep thrower that Foles is, which lines up with Torreys resurgence in the playoffs,..

He may or may not be washed up,.. for now Im taking the approach that he brought his A-game to the playoffs when it was most needed, which is most recent for real scenarios.  We have all seen players be training and preseason studs gone on to bust and the opposite.

When we are 6 games in then I would reevaluate.  

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, JARROD said:

One could argue that in his first year at San Francisco-- with a downfield thrower like Kapernick he averaged 20 yards per reception, and after Kapernick was benched for Blaine the check down extraordinaire Gabbert that his stats just fell to notta,...

Looking at Phili, he averaged 16 yards per reception, mostly because of the end-- but again one could argue that Wentz is a much more complete quarterback than Foles obviously but is not the deep thrower that Foles is, which lines up with Torreys resurgence in the playoffs,..

He may or may not be washed up,.. for now Im taking the approach that he brought his A-game to the playoffs when it was most needed, which is most recent for real scenarios.  We have all seen players be training and preseason studs gone on to bust and the opposite.

When we are 6 games in then I would reevaluate.  

He's not totally without value, but does that justify a label of "big time player".

Being dropped by two consecutive teams two years into your contract just doesn't equate to "big time" for me.