Curtis Samuel is the real deal.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

You have a valid point. But, do you think Torrey would have made Samuel's TD catch? I honestly don't believe Smith makes that catch - it was a high difficulty hands catch that Cam put a lot of mustard on. 

Cam lobbed the ball to him? What was hard about it. Was as easy a catch as any receiver had all day. This is getting sad....

[bababoey]

Samuel might be the most talented played, including Cam, on this team.  He also drops way to many passes, I know I have seen him drop at least 2 this year that hits him right in the hands, and he does not always even know for sure where to line up.  I believe he was the reason we had the 5 yard delay on 4th down.  I have no idea if he runs all his routes correctly or not but he is to talented not to give him the ball. 

Now if you want a guy that does not know where he is suppose to be and dose not know what route to run or if he will catch the ball playing 40 or 50 snaps a game, and as a quarterback I bet Cam don't, go ahead.  I would rather have a slower guy that is in the right place doing the right thing play.  Why do you think they are giving him the ball on all the end arounds and reverses.  He can't fug those up just hand him the ball.  When he gets all the offense down and knows where he is suppose to be and what he is suppose to do and you can line him up anywhere and he is not lost, then he should not come off the field.  Why do you think CMC never comes off the field.  He knows the whole offense and he can line up anywhere.

[Daddy_Uncle]

Really excited for a long future of Moore, Samuel, and CMAC

[Mage]

To go along with the above ^, I'd like and expect them to use Samuel at RB more to give CMC a breather.  I'm sure there are packages for him like that.  You can split him out based off the defense, run it to him, etc.  

 

[Navy_football]

3 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  Let’s see. One WR is raw to begin with. Then we are asking him to learn all three positions. And he just played more snaps than any WR. It’s week 8. What’s the issue. Would you rather have a few meaningless stats, or watch him hit the rookie wall in DEC.? 

  I’m not even getting into Samuel. You nor I nor any of us know specifics regarding Samuel.He missed the first month and he’s taking off. Again, what’s the issue? 

  So your idea is to play every rookie right away, no matter what, even if we lose games? And instead of fresh legs in December, they hit the wall. How’s that help?

2

Didn't know Moore had the most WR snaps. That's great and no issues there. I'm not as focussed on stats as I am player development. You need game-time plays to develop. I just think Moore would be much better if he'd played earlier in the season. Game time chemistry between a WR and QB are important as well. That takes time and plays/reps. 

Samuel is a different animal. He was held out for health reasons and you can't blame coaches for being careful with a player's health. Just would hate to see them limit a young dynamic playmaker's touches going forward, when a not-so-dynamic veteran comes back from injury. 

And no, every rookie should not play day one - don't think I ever suggested that. But when any player shows big play ability, I think you find ways to get them in the game. You find ways to get the ball into their hands. Particularly when the guys in front of them aren't making plays. 

Fresh legs in December are great. But fresh legs out there making early season mistakes - not so much. Talent needs to be on the field getting touches. It's not a rookie vs vet thing to me. It's a who is the biggest playmaker thing. I don't care if he's 20 or 40. Year 1 or year 20. I'm riding with my best players, not my safest. 

[Mage]

5 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Didn't know Moore had the most WR snaps. That's great and no issues there. I'm not as focussed on stats as I am player development. You need game-time plays to develop. I just think Moore would be much better if he'd played earlier in the season. Game time chemistry between a WR and QB are important as well. That takes time and plays/reps. 

Samuel is a different animal. He was held out for health reasons and you can't blame coaches for being careful with a player's health. Just would hate to see them limit a young dynamic playmaker's touches going forward, when a not-so-dynamic veteran comes back from injury. 

And no, every rookie should not play day one - don't think I ever suggested that. But when any player shows big play ability, I think you find ways to get them in the game. You find ways to get the ball into their hands. Particularly when the guys in front of them aren't making plays. 

Fresh legs in December are great. But fresh legs out there making early season mistakes - not so much. Talent needs to be on the field getting touches. It's not a rookie vs vet thing to me. It's a who is the biggest playmaker thing. I don't care if he's 20 or 40. Year 1 or year 20. I'm riding with my best players, not my safest. 

But who says Samuel is our best option?  He literally dropped a wide open catch.  What makes you think he's ready?  Because he's fast?  Because he makes plays on reverses?  All of this is based on nothing.  He's a playmaker, but there is no reason to think he is ready for more time at receiver.

And we ain't the Bills.  We're a team with Super Bowl aspirations.  It is 100% understandable why we wouldn't want to cost ourselves games early in the season just so rookies can get more time to develop.  That is what practice is for.  

And Samuel has been getting touches ever since he's came back.  We've thrown him screens and have had him run the ball.  Between Olsen, CMC, Funchess, Moore, not everyone can touch the ball multiple times a game every game.

And Smith has made (critical) plays in the last 2 games he's played.  What more do ya'll want from him?

[Black&BlueBubba]

The only way we are going to compete for a ring against the big 4 (Chiefs, Rams, Saints, Patriots) is if we have Samuel and Moore getting a ton of snaps.  Those teams are too explosive to watch Funchess catch the ball and go down immediately and smith with little ability for big plays seemily anymore in his career.  

Samuel is absolutely dynamic and the opposing defense has to account for him.  Which will open things up for Olsen and others.  As others have said he does remind me of a Tyrik Hill with more power and a little less wiggle.  His speed is right there. He's a damn jackrabbit with the ball in his hands.  

This offense is so fun to watch right now.  

[Navy_football]

4 minutes ago, Mage said:

But who says Samuel is our best option?  He literally dropped a wide open catch.  What makes you think he's ready?  Because he's fast?  Because he makes plays on reverses?  All of this is based on nothing.  He's a playmaker, but there is no reason to think he is ready for more time at receiver.

And we ain't the Bills.  We're a team with Super Bowl aspirations.  It is 100% understandable why we wouldn't want to cost ourselves games early in the season just so rookies can get more time to develop.  That is what practice is for.  

And Samuel has been getting touches ever since he's came back.  We've thrown him screens and have had him run the ball.  Between Olsen, CMC, Funchess, Moore, not everyone can touch the ball multiple times a game every game.

So you honestly think Torrey Smith is a better option than Curtis Samuel? 

Samuel drops a pass and now he's not ready to play? So Torrey and Funchess haven't dropped any passes? I don't care if he's a rookie. He's a better football player right now. 

Torrey may be a safer play at WR, as he'll minimize mental mistakes. But players like Samuel and Moore are game changers. They make plays that can alter the course of a game. You have to get them the ball. I'll take a drop from Samuel knowing he could break the next one for 60 yards. 

Tyreek Hill was a horrible WR, but he had game changing ability so they found ways to get him the ball. Now he's one of the most dangerous players/WRs in the league. If he was in Carolina, he'd be on the bench watching Torrey Smith get his targets.

[Toomers]

18 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Didn't know Moore had the most WR snaps. That's great and no issues there. I'm not as focussed on stats as I am player development. You need game-time plays to develop. I just think Moore would be much better if he'd played earlier in the season. Game time chemistry between a WR and QB are important as well. That takes time and plays/reps. 

Samuel is a different animal. He was held out for health reasons and you can't blame coaches for being careful with a player's health. Just would hate to see them limit a young dynamic playmaker's touches going forward, when a not-so-dynamic veteran comes back from injury. 

And no, every rookie should not play day one - don't think I ever suggested that. But when any player shows big play ability, I think you find ways to get them in the game. You find ways to get the ball into their hands. Particularly when the guys in front of them aren't making plays. 

Fresh legs in December are great. But fresh legs out there making early season mistakes - not so much. Talent needs to be on the field getting touches. It's not a rookie vs vet thing to me. It's a who is the biggest playmaker thing. I don't care if he's 20 or 40. Year 1 or year 20. I'm riding with my best players, not my safest. 

So you give valid reasons why they haven’t, or at least acknowledge you don’t know snaps or targets, and still re-state that they NEED to be out there in spite of fumbling, dropping passes, not knowing where to line up and a heart condition. But they should still play more. Even though they are now. 

   We’re you glad Torrey saved our season at Philly. Was that not “playmaker” enough? 

[Mage]

3 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

So you honestly think Torrey Smith is a better option than Curtis Samuel? 

Samuel drops a pass and now he's not ready to play? So Torrey and Funchess haven't dropped any passes? I don't care if he's a rookie. He's a better football player right now. 

Torrey may be a safer play at WR, as he'll minimize mental mistakes. But players like Samuel and Moore are game changers. They make plays that can alter the course of a game. You have to get them the ball. I'll take a drop from Samuel knowing he could break the next one for 60 yards. 

Tyreek Hill was a horrible WR, but he had game changing ability so they found ways to get him the ball. Now he's one of the most dangerous players/WRs in the league. If he was in Carolina, he'd be on the bench watching Torrey Smith get his targets.

Dude, what are you talking about?  I already said I'm not arguing Smith > Samuel.  What I'm saying is it isn't as cut and dry as Samuel > Smith either.  Ya'll want Samuel to get more opportunities, but he got an opportunity at the start of the game and dropped it.  I'm not saying that defines him as a player, but I'm saying that maybe, just maybe, he isn't ready to take more of a role yet.  

Smith had started to produce before his injury.  So acting like he wasn't doing anything isn't true.

And why do people keep trying to compare Samuel to Tyreek Hill?  Hill is one of a kind and legitimately a great route-runner.  Not to mention, his speed is out of this world.  Samuel is fast, but he isn't Hill fast, and Hill knows how to separate deep.  Plus, you ignore the fact that SAMUEL HAS BEEN GETTING TOUCHES.  We've found ways to get him the ball.  He's scored 4 touchdowns.  He can't touch the ball every snap, we have too many weapons for that.  So acting like we're just leaving him on the bench and doing nothing with it is, again, not the truth.  

[Navy_football]

3 minutes ago, Toomers said:

So you give valid reasons why they haven’t, or at least acknowledge you don’t know snaps or targets, and still re-state that they NEED to be out there in spite of fumbling, dropping passes, not knowing where to line up and a heart condition. But they should still play more. Even though they are now. 

   We’re you glad Torrey saved our season at Philly. Was that not “playmaker” enough? 

Yes. They should be out there because they're better players than Torrey - period. No issues with the past two weeks. Not sure why you think I would be calling for more playing time. My concern is that Torrey will take touches away from better players because he's a safer option. 

If they can still get Moore and Samuel their touches with Torrey in the game, then that's acceptable. 

And how do you know if the game would have even been that close (Philly) if Samuel was in? We had scored exactly 0 points through 3 entire quarters. Philly only had 17 points. 

[Toomers]

5 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Yes. They should be out there because they're better players than Torrey - period. No issues with the past two weeks. Not sure why you think I would be calling for more playing time. My concern is that Torrey will take touches away from better players because he's a safer option. 

If they can still get Moore and Samuel their touches with Torrey in the game, then that's acceptable. 

And how do you know if the game would have even been that close (Philly) if Samuel was in? We had scored exactly 0 points through 3 entire quarters. Philly only had 17 points. 

 So what’s his blocking like? Route knowledge? Does he know where to line up?(not always). And most of all, health. Do you personally have his medical history in front of you? No. So it takes some big brass ones to make assumptions about his overall condition to further an agenda. 

  You can speculate about Philly and make up whatever you want. The only fact is Smith came through. In real life. Not assumption land. Samuel could have easily caused us to be behind further. Or dropped that pass Smith caught. It goes both ways. 

   Maybe you should wait for something to actually happen before you make absolute arguments about it. 

[heel31ok]

18 hours ago, FuFuLamePoo said:

Second best player on this offense. Him only playing like 15% of snaps is just absurd. He should be on the field every single play

Hes more like a sixth man coming off the bench to spark the offense ...

[Navy_football]

7 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 So what’s his blocking like? Route knowledge? Does he know where to line up?(not always). And most of all, health. Do you personally have his medical history in front of you? No. So it takes some big brass ones to make assumptions about his overall condition to further an agenda. 

  You can speculate about Philly and make up whatever you want. The only fact is Smith came through. In real life. Not assumption land. Samuel could have easily caused us to be behind further. Or dropped that pass Smith caught. It goes both ways. 

   Maybe you should wait for something to actually happen before you make absolute arguments about it. 

So... you're changing my statement. Samuel's past health issues are valid. Coaches definitely shouldn't compromise his health. I've said that already. I'm not arguing the past, I'm concerned with the future. 

I didn't make an absolute argument about Samuel in Philly. I said "And how do you know if the game would have even been that close (Philly) if Samuel was in?" That is not an absolute statement. 

In other words, how can you say that a player with a higher propensity to make big plays wouldn't have made big plays in the game if given more touches. Therefore making the game not as close?

Torrey should not take touches away from Samuel is my whole concern. Point blank!