Are we using Rivera as a scapegoat?

[TheRed]

Bullshit.

To be clear, not everything we've seen is on Rivera. But it was Ron Rivera that took too long to send Shula packing. It was Ron Rivera that interviewed exactly zero outside candidates for both the OC, and DC positions in a crucial season with many players on their last leg. It was Ron Rivera that waited until December to try to make changes on his staff while his team was in freefall even after watching his defense give up 45 points in primetime against the Steelers.

Ron is still the same scared coach that runs away from accountability. It's why he has only hired coordinators he thinks he can control. It's why Richard Rodgers still has a prominent position on this staff.

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, Anybodyhome said:

And it's not really scapegoating if you're at the top of the ladder. Rivera actually scapegoated the coaches who were fired, essentially blaming them for carrying out his coaching philosophy.

You hire assistant coaches based not only on their X's & O's, but on their working relationship with the HC and their ability to carry forth the coaching philosophy of their boss. That's why the family tress of NFL head coaches look like something from backwoods incestual Mississippi- they all know each other and often come from the same place, which also accounts for the constant retreading of coaches.    

 

2 hours ago, Anybodyhome said:

And it's not really scapegoating if you're at the top of the ladder. Rivera actually scapegoated the coaches who were fired, essentially blaming them for carrying out his coaching philosophy.

You hire assistant coaches based not only on their X's & O's, but on their working relationship with the HC and their ability to carry forth the coaching philosophy of their boss. That's why the family tress of NFL head coaches look like something from backwoods incestual Mississippi- they all know each other and often come from the same place, which also accounts for the constant retreading of coaches.    

My response was to the OP which I read to say is the huddle or we scapegoating him. And I think we are. Has he made mistakes including promoting Washington? Yeah. But I don't think dumping him will fix things unless we also continue to make personnel changes like stop starting rookies in the secondary and finding some disruptive DEs. Look at how Reid has shored up the safety position. Plus any need coach won't be given the leeway that Rivera inheriting a 2 win team. If Rivera's goes the expectation is the new guy better win right away or we will start a revolving door.

[KillaCamNewton]

4 hours ago, OneBadCat said:

Right but how long has he known that Gano is a choker? Roughly 3 years. Why does he repeatedly rely on Cam and pressure him into one or two plays that must go right to save the game with a shoddy o-line?   Why does he throw challenge flags that everyone knows aren't winnable. Why does he stick with coordinators that are terrible for far too long?

that's my issue. he puts EVERY game on Cam to win the game. If he comes out conservative and lets the other team jump out to a lead he puts it on Cam to score and come back. If we jump out to an early lead he goes into prevent and lets the other team chip away until he lets got a close game again and makes Cam have to close out a game in the last minute that should have been wrapped up in the 3rd quarter

[gorillamilitia13]

15 hours ago, panthers55 said:

 

My response was to the OP which I read to say is the huddle or we scapegoating him. And I think we are. Has he made mistakes including promoting Washington? Yeah. But I don't think dumping him will fix things unless we also continue to make personnel changes like stop starting rookies in the secondary and finding some disruptive DEs. Look at how Reid has shored up the safety position. Plus any need coach won't be given the leeway that Rivera inheriting a 2 win team. If Rivera's goes the expectation is the new guy better win right away or we will start a revolving door.

I agree for the most part but our starting rookie DB is a stud.

[Carl Spackler]

20 hours ago, Anybodyhome said:

"...several missed kicks by Gano..."

Gano missed 2 FGs this season. He's 14/16 on the year.

"... a couple missed throws by #1..."

Cam threw twice as many picks yesterday than Gano has missed FGs the entire season.

would you say those field goals cost us two games, though? Because they did

[Davidson Deac II]

20 hours ago, Anybodyhome said:

"...several missed kicks by Gano..."

Gano missed 2 FGs this season. He's 14/16 on the year.

"... a couple missed throws by #1..."

Cam threw twice as many picks yesterday than Gano has missed FGs the entire season.

He has also missed 3xp's, one of which was very costly.  

 

For kickers though, the fg make or miss is more about timing than anything else.   Just look at our first SB.  Vinateri missed 2 of 3, but when the game was on the line, he made it and because that clutch ability, he is considered one of the est.  

[Anybodyhome]

6 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

would you say those field goals cost us two games, though? Because they did

Would you say those interceptions cost us at least 2 games, though? Because they did.

Bottom line, if you're going to hold people accountable for doing their job, hold them all accountable.

[Carl Spackler]

Just now, Anybodyhome said:

Would you say those interceptions cost us at least 2 games, though? Because they did.

Bottom line, if you're going to hold people accountable for doing their job, hold them all accountable.

No, I wouldn't say that. Pin yesterday on Cam, that's pretty fair, but Cam doesn't need to go for two against Detroit if Gano doesn't choke. Doesn't need a big play against Seattle if Gano doesn't choke.

We win the 2016 opener if Gano doesn't choke. We win the 2016 season finale against Tampa if Gano doesn't choke. There's a pattern here. Gano makes one big kick every year or two, and somehow people forget that nine times out of 10, he dry-heaves on the field when we need a kick to win.

[Carl Spackler]

Just now, leoslayer said:

Cam doesn't take a bad sack vs Detroit and Ganos kick would have been good.

 

But honestly he does miss kicks but you can't call a 52yd in November a choke.

A 42 sure absolutely. Anything beyond 50 the margin of error shrinks down hold, plant, turf conditions, wind.

It's way harder to kick than throw.

In a damn dome? No, it should be far easier to make a kick when there's no fuging wind.

[Anybodyhome]

3 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

No, I wouldn't say that. Pin yesterday on Cam, that's pretty fair, but Cam doesn't need to go for two against Detroit if Gano doesn't choke. Doesn't need a big play against Seattle if Gano doesn't choke.

We win the 2016 opener if Gano doesn't choke. We win the 2016 season finale against Tampa if Gano doesn't choke. There's a pattern here. Gano makes one big kick every year or two, and somehow people forget that nine times out of 10, he dry-heaves on the field when we need a kick to win.

Look beyond the end result and look at why it came down to a kick to begin with. Gano doesn't need to hit 45 and 50 yarders to win games if the brakes and handcuffs are suddenly put on the offense.

Rivera has said it himself- he's not a fan of putting points on the board. He'd rather have a 9-6 win than a 30-14 win:

Ron Rivera on Chiefs-Rams: "It's kind of set up for that (rule changes). … I'm not a fan of it. I like a good, old-fashioned 7-6 game."

— Joe Person (@josephperson) November 21, 2018

Gano has attempted 16 FGs this season- 29th in the league. And half of those are from beyond 40. So, you have a kicker who doesn't see the field much, but when he does, odds are it's not a chip shot (no FGs attempted inside the 20 this year). And fans are pissed because he's only hitting 88% of his attempts.

[Carl Spackler]

2 minutes ago, Anybodyhome said:

Look beyond the end result and look at why it came down to a kick to begin with. Gano doesn't need to hit 45 and 50 yarders to win games if the brakes and handcuffs are suddenly put on the offense.

Rivera has said it himself- he's not a fan of putting points on the board. He'd rather have a 9-6 win than a 30-14 win:

Ron Rivera on Chiefs-Rams: "It's kind of set up for that (rule changes). … I'm not a fan of it. I like a good, old-fashioned 7-6 game."

— Joe Person (@josephperson) November 21, 2018

Gano has attempted 16 FGs this season- 29th in the league. And half of those are from beyond 40. So, you have a kicker who doesn't see the field much, but when he does, odds are it's not a chip shot (no FGs attempted inside the 20 this year). And fans are pissed because he's only hitting 88% of his attempts.

Well, fans are pissed that Cam's only hitting on 70% of his attempts. When they're hitting obviously matters more than how often.

[raleigh-panther]

Any NFL head coach who says ‘haven’t you ever needed help the first time you did something’ in speaking of his DC, should be fired 

this is a billion dollar business not an on the job training opportunity 

 Washington could have done an apprenticeship before being put on that position but he never, ever should have owned that title  that’s on Ron

as is the rest of his underwhelming defensive staff  Rodgers, has no  business still  being here either

as is playing Newton when there is very clearly something wrong with him

as is waiting to late to play young players

as is keeping Gano and paying Gano money that should ha e been used elsewhere by keeping   Buckner

as is he and Hurney for allowing farewell tours by old players

then Game day time management, roster management 

i can’t tell anyone how pissed I am

this roster is old and slow and on the wrong side of 30 with salary cap issues

the nfl is rebuild and retool ever year. Ron didn’t get that message either 

 

[Peppers90 NC]

Often at some point, players become tone def to coaches after hearing the same things over and over. Can happen in parenting as well. Maybe why the Patriots do so well as they dont keep many players for very long.

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, gorillamilitia13 said:

I agree for the most part but our starting rookie DB is a stud.

For a rookie he is doing great. But he is a rookie and still makes mistakes like getting burned and getting caught for PI in the end zone. Sure it may have been a ticky tack foul but if he doesn't get burned on the double move he is in position to make a clean play and not racing to cover his butt.