clearing up this kyle allen vs cam newton battle

[Peppers90 NC]

2 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

allen hasn't outperformed cam either

 

uhmmmmmmm

[Saca312]

ill reiterate my points:

healthy cam is better than kyle allen ever was or will be.

kyle allen is still a decent qb.

i don't know if cam will be healthy after this. determine contract based on health. if not, go the cheaper and wiser route. if cam's back at peak form, should pay him a decent deal based on that and don't let a franchise talent walk and become drew bree's heir.

end of story.

 

[Adb6368]

It’s not a question of whether Kyle Allen is a better player than cam. The question is whether cam will ever be able to stay healthy for a 16 game season AND if he’s not healthy, do we have a coach that can put our team in the best position to win. That answer is not so clear. 

[trueblade]

3 hours ago, lightsout said:

Say Allen wins out or drops 1 between now and let's say November. We're sitting at 5-2, 6-2, something like that. Cam comes back. Cam is healthy but rusty. Has two meh games. We drop to 5-4, 6-4. Figures it out, knocks the rust off, 8-4. Two more games where things just don't go out way, 8-6. Then the season ends with us being 10-6, maybe playoffs? Or 8-8 and missing.

My biggest concern with Cam is it only took three plays for him to get hurt in the preseason. I'm concerned how well he'll hold up to the pounding again.  Whether it was Newton or Rivera primiarly at fault (and I don't know who it was), I'm also concerned if he'll continue playing if injured and cost us a game like the first TB game (possibly LA as well?). 

[rico6]

20 minutes ago, hepcat said:

All valid points, but one thing you did not touch on was how the team has responded to each QB. The team looked depressed and unmotivated playing with Cam Newton this season and late last season. The energy he usually has wasn't there and it permeated down the entire roster. Yes, the injuries probably had a major role to play in that. But you can't discount the attitude change on the field, the change to Allen has made a positive impact in that area.

Cam is a polarizing guy. There are players on the roster that don't care for his personality, just like there are some fans who don't either. Cam is weirdly attention seeking and that can rub people the wrong way. But when the team wins, no one cares. When they lose, those problems get amplified.

Let's just hope Cam comes back healthy, regains his MVP form, and leads this team into the playoffs. Because if he comes back and the team looks depressed and lethargic again, he's done. 

Got any proof of this claim or just yanking it out your ass?

[hepcat]

5 minutes ago, rico6 said:

Got any proof of this claim or just yanking it out your ass?

Honestly I could check, because I went to high school with one current and one former player on the team (you can do the math), but this isn't a hot take. Cam can rub some people the wrong way. The team has cut/traded guys that didn't vibe with Cam before, even mid season. That's just life. Not everyone is going to like you, but they can still work with you. When the team loses, those opinions get stronger. 

If Cam comes back healthy and the team wins, no one is going to care. Cam won't survive another 8 game losing streak.

[micnificent28]

4 hours ago, lightsout said:

 

We hope. Because even in the preseason game prior to the injury to his foot, Cam wasn't wowing. Understandable too, as it was his first action post surgery. And that is what terrifies me.

 

Say Allen wins out or drops 1 between now and let's say November. We're sitting at 5-2, 6-2, something like that. Cam comes back. Cam is healthy but rusty. Has two meh games. We drop to 5-4, 6-4. Figures it out, knocks the rust off, 8-4. Two more games where things just don't go out way, 8-6. Then the season ends with us being 10-6, maybe playoffs? Or 8-8 and missing.

Real possibility of the above happening and to ignore that is silly. Which is the fear of removing Allen if he's playing really well. It's one thing for your starter to miss two games mid season, it's another for your starter to never start healthy and get replaced. It leads to a very weird situation with a lot of uncomfortable thoughts if that backup goes out and wins.

What how... he played like 1 drive before the foot injury happened lol

[Zeek]

5 hours ago, Saca312 said:

since this board has collective amnesia and/or a vitriolic tendency to commit to one side of the "cam newton vs kyle allen" spectrum, let me clear a few things up.

-No. Kyle Allen is not better than a healthy Cam Newton. Stop kidding yourselves. Even with Kyle Allen reaching his best form he won't even touch Cam's peak. Let's just end that ridiculous notion there.

-No. Kyle Allen does not suck. He's a more than capable backup that has starting potential for plenty of other teams. He does a lot of things right that not many QBs can do, and he still is learning/growing as a player. As more experience comes, his ball handling will be better, he'll step up in the pocket more, and he'll go through his progressions more efficiently.

-No. Kyle Allen should not remain the starter when Cam Newton comes back 100% healthy. Cam is (gasps) actually a more accurate thrower in tight windows in more tense situations than Kyle Allen has shown. He handles pressure better. His "overthrows" are the most overblown narrative out there and completely ignorant in the eyes of anyone who's actually watched his film. He also has more experience.

-No. Cam Newton has not sucked ever since 2015. It's like some of you have collective amnesia from the latter 2017 and early 2018 run where Cam was on a hot streak and in the MVP conversation. I dare say his performance in the 2017 playoffs was the best I've ever seen from Cam, especially considering the context of his o-line and practice squad WRs and outplaying a solid Drew Brees' performance. In fact, a healthy Cam Newton is better than his 2015 form, as he's been more accurate than before.

-No. Just because Cam Newton is a better QB than Kyle Allen doesn't mean Allen sucks. 

-Yes, it is possible for both Kyle Allen and Cam Newton to be good QBs. That can be mutually true without the clash of "blah blah blah Kyle Allen suxs" and "blah blah blah Cam Newton suxs." Pretend we have two capable starters on the team, because that's our current situation. It's just the one with more experience, an MVP award, superbowl appearance, multiple playoff wins, multiple NFL records, ROTY award, etc. happens to be the better option. That's a fact. Kyle Allen is still good but to hold him to the standard of Cam is idiotic and to downplay his impact for us is also moronic.

-Yes, it's fair to question Cam's health going forward. nothing is proven until played on the field. 

-Yes, it's idiotic to assume he'll suck going forward still.

-Yes, it's still moronic to assume Cam has sucked after 2015 or never lived up to that form.

-Yes, it's possible to support the Panthers if you like both Kyle Allen and Cam Newton.

-Yes, it is possible to enjoy a win without turning it into a Kyle Allen vs Cam Newton warzone. I mean we're 2-2 trending up now that's all that matters.

Just my few cents on this matter.

Holy poo, common sense and logic on huddle 

[raz]

37 minutes ago, hepcat said:

All valid points, but one thing you did not touch on was how the team has responded to each QB. The team looked depressed and unmotivated playing with Cam Newton this season and late last season. The energy he usually has wasn't there and it permeated down the entire roster. Yes, the injuries probably had a major role to play in that. But you can't discount the attitude change on the field, the change to Allen has made a positive impact in that area.

Cam is a polarizing guy. There are players on the roster that don't care for his personality, just like there are some fans who don't either. Cam is weirdly attention seeking and that can rub people the wrong way. But when the team wins, no one cares. When they lose, those problems get amplified.

Let's just hope Cam comes back healthy, regains his MVP form, and leads this team into the playoffs. Because if he comes back and the team looks depressed and lethargic again, he's done. 

i'm gonna guess the team looked depressed and lethargic with cam at the helm because they practiced with him and knew he couldn't play worth a shite.  they all knew.   everybody in that building knew.   

the other thing i want to say is some of y'all seem delusional about his next contract.  if he gets healthy and plays reasonably well $30 mil ain't doing it.  $35 mil ain't doing it.   $37, $38 mil is gonna be what it takes. that's gonna be the decision.   i don't think i would do it but could change my mind

[Peppers90 NC]

9 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Honestly I could check, because I went to high school with one current and one former player on the team (you can do the math), but this isn't a hot take. Cam can rub some people the wrong way. The team has cut/traded guys that didn't vibe with Cam before, even mid season. That's just life. Not everyone is going to like you, but they can still work with you. When the team loses, those opinions get stronger. 

If Cam comes back healthy and the team wins, no one is going to care. Cam won't survive another 8 game losing streak.

I'm not really sure why people think this is a crazy possibility. I've heard things as well and of course no player is going to say it publicly. 

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, PanthersNC1984 said:

Cam is thin skinned, with Cam, had he faced that early adversity with the fumbles like Allen did, he would have folded and took the team down with him. 
 

Allen brushes it off and wins. Bottom line is this, Allen Vs 2015 Cam? I’m taking Cam all day long.. Allen vs 2019 Cam? It’s Allen all the way for me

Tell me more how Allen brushed off 3 fumble turn overs and wins the game throwing 0 touchdowns.. did Allen win that game or did the defense? This is clearly bias.

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, thebigcat said:

100%
 

when Cam gets rattled, he’s checking out mentally

Yep Allen just brushed off his turnovers and....let the defense win the game?

[Saca312]

2 minutes ago, raz said:

i'm gonna guess the team looked depressed and lethargic with cam at the helm because they practiced with him and knew he couldn't play worth a shite.  they all knew.   everybody in that building knew.   

 

[MasterAwesome]

32 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

allen hasn't outperformed cam either

 

“Allen hasn’t outperformed Cam. Here’s one clip of arguably his singular worst play of his entire short career for proof”? This is what happens when you fall down the rabbit hole of Billy M Twitter analysis.

Your posts in here exceedingly reveal that you’re hardly giving some objective analysis. You’ve already projected Allen’s entire career and ceiling based off of 3 games.