2018 Hangover

[SmokinwithWilly]

10 hours ago, pantherj said:

Gettlman's plan for drafting large WR's didn't work and really hurt us, and we're talking a 1st and 2nd rounder. Did you think 2nd rounder Kony Ealy was good? 3rd rounder Daryl (never looked good EVER) Worly. I'm not going through them all. I completely hated Gettleman's drafting with very few exceptions, and his Matt Kalil decision, a player who looked TERRIBLE to every single member of the Huddle, was a disaster.

KB is a tough call. Rookie season he looked really good, then a torn ACL and a tragic personal loss sent him into a spiral down. Theres no way to predict how someone will recover from that. Not everyone is TD. Ealy had potential as evidenced in SB50. He never lived up to it. Worley was part of the 2016 draft that netted us Bradberry. Kalil really looked like a JR move, like the TD and Olsen extensions.

As far as a rematch, theres no way to say what would happen. You can only play the games you play and Ron's defense got taken behind the woodshed and spanked. 51-13 is lack of preparation.The defense looked lost.

Ron is on the hot seat and rightfully so. And after last seasons Cam debacle, Hurney is likely there with him. As a GM, you cant risk the future of your franchise to serious injury when it's obvious he has a serious problem and your coach refuses to take him out.

[Jmac]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:52 PM, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not generally a guy who gets my hopes up anyway. I always try to be measured and not set my expectations too high too early.

Granted, sometimes that's not easy.

Last year was one of those years. I was pretty happy with the early season results. Admittedly, there was this nagging little thought in the back of my head that maybe we were a house of cards, but I kinda hoped I was just being paranoid.

Then came the week that reality (or was it the Steelers) walked up and slapped us in the face.

You know the rest.

Fast forward to this year. As usual I'm trying to be cautious, but there are also a lot of things to like about how the team is looking right now. Rationally speaking, I know we're still in the easy part of our schedule and that it gets tougher from here.

And that's where the memory of last year creeps in.

To be clear, it's not a particular factor or a certain area of the team that I worry about. Honestly, it's probably not even a rational thing. It's just the memory of how quickly last year went from the penthouse to the outhouse and sincerely not wanting to see that happen again.

So I'm curious now as to whether anybody else is thinking about it. Are you fully hyped up again, all systems go on your optimism, ready to take on the world and come out victorious?

Or is there that nagging doubt that we could get smacked in the face and fall back to Earth again?

What you see is what it is. They are mediocre and can beat the bottom feeders (most of the time), and get ass beatings by the top notch teams. It's  been this way for years.

[pantherj]

3 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

KB is a tough call. Rookie season he looked really good, then a torn ACL and a tragic personal loss sent him into a spiral down. Theres no way to predict how someone will recover from that. Not everyone is TD. Ealy had potential as evidenced in SB50. He never lived up to it. Worley was part of the 2016 draft that netted us Bradberry. Kalil really looked like a JR move, like the TD and Olsen extensions.

As far as a rematch, theres no way to say what would happen. You can only play the games you play and Ron's defense got taken behind the woodshed and spanked. 51-13 is lack of preparation.The defense looked lost.

Ron is on the hot seat and rightfully so. And after last seasons Cam debacle, Hurney is likely there with him. As a GM, you cant risk the future of your franchise to serious injury when it's obvious he has a serious problem and your coach refuses to take him out.

I'm not one to cut Ron or Hurney any slack whatsoever. I think they are both on the hot seat contingent upon the outcome of this season. They're in trouble and we have to make the playoffs or they're out the door imo. I really liked the moves Hurney made since returning, but it might not be enough to save his bacon.

I wasn't saying for a fact that I knew the outcome of what would happen if we had a rematch with the 49ers. They players were clearly confused on defense, and this might have stemmed from the fact that SF specifically planned to throw Luke off by changing all their play call verbiage and signals before the game.

I'm starting to think that some Panthers fans have the impression that Gettleman didn't make any mistakes, and anything that went wrong was basically JR overriding Gettleman. I certainly didn't have that impression at the time, and in hindsight I really don't think that was the case. I think JR was focused on blue jeans, leg shaving, love notes, and heart pill medication. But let's say you're right, anything that went south was all JR, then Gettleman was a fantastic GM and he got a raw deal. Do I think that? Nope.  

[mc52beast]

We got the snot knocked out of us by the 9ers, most people who aren’t Panther fans picked us to lose... this game against the Titans could make or break the season and determine whether Tepper makes changes.

If the players are determined that 2019 won’t be another 2018 then we win, if they play like they played last week we lose and it could spiral out of control.

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 hours ago, pantherj said:

I'm not one to cut Ron or Hurney any slack whatsoever. I think they are both on the hot seat contingent upon the outcome of this season. They're in trouble and we have to make the playoffs or they're out the door imo. I really liked the moves Hurney made since returning, but it might not be enough to save his bacon.

I wasn't saying for a fact that I knew the outcome of what would happen if we had a rematch with the 49ers. They players were clearly confused on defense, and this might have stemmed from the fact that SF specifically planned to throw Luke off by changing all their play call verbiage and signals before the game.

I'm starting to think that some Panthers fans have the impression that Gettleman didn't make any mistakes, and anything that went wrong was basically JR overriding Gettleman. I certainly didn't have that impression at the time, and in hindsight I really don't think that was the case. I think JR was focused on blue jeans, leg shaving, love notes, and heart pill medication. But let's say you're right, anything that went south was all JR, then Gettleman was a fantastic GM and he got a raw deal. Do I think that? Nope.  

Oh I'm not saying JR was responsible for all that went south, just that particular deal felt like it was about "family". Gman had his fair share of mistakes for sure.

Hurney has made some good moves since his return, no arguments there. But if we end up with a losing season, I dont think it's going to matter much.

I think I'm most frustrated with him for not shutting Cam down when Ron wouldnt. I think that's a call as a GM you have to make for the future of the franchise qb when hes playing injured, not just hurt.

[pantherj]

19 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Oh I'm not saying JR was responsible for all that went south, just that particular deal felt like it was about "family". Gman had his fair share of mistakes for sure.

Hurney has made some good moves since his return, no arguments there. But if we end up with a losing season, I dont think it's going to matter much.

I think I'm most frustrated with him for not shutting Cam down when Ron wouldnt. I think that's a call as a GM you have to make for the future of the franchise qb when hes playing injured, not just hurt.

I feel fairly certain that Olsen and TD made a visit to JR's office and interrupted his dirty note writing to let him know how upset they were that Gettleman wasn't going to give them what they wanted. The thing is that I wanted Olsen to get paid because he's still a rare talent and not easily replaced. I wanted TD gone. I don't wanted older pricey LBs on this team at all. In fact, I don't want pricey LBs of any age on this team, but especially older LBs who have lost a step. LBs don't have enough of an impact on the game to command the kind of money we hand out imo.

Hurney really has done an amazing job imo, but the injury bug is holding us back. Cam and our good OTs are out, so beating a top tier team is unlikely. The Saints will sweep us if we can't get healthy. The injury excuse isn't going to work for RR and Hurney this time imo. It's over if we don't make the playoffs imo.

Cam hasn't been disclosing the severity of his injuries. He had a macho Superman approach to injuries, and tried to just play anyway because we'd lose without him. That didn't help the situation. Cam has recently changed his approach to injuries, and finally he's going to be forthcoming and take plenty of time to completely heal. Does Hurney deserve blame for not overriding Cam Newton, the face of the franchise, and veteran coach and leader RR? Well I can tell you there is no way in hell I would have gone over their heads in that situation.      

[Sgt Schultz]

5 hours ago, pantherj said:

I'm starting to think that some Panthers fans have the impression that Gettleman didn't make any mistakes, and anything that went wrong was basically JR overriding Gettleman. I certainly didn't have that impression at the time, and in hindsight I really don't think that was the case. I think JR was focused on blue jeans, leg shaving, love notes, and heart pill medication. But let's say you're right, anything that went south was all JR, then Gettleman was a fantastic GM and he got a raw deal. Do I think that? Nope.  

I'm not convinced a lot of the poor moves, particularly when it came to handing out contracts, were not JR.  That goes for both Gettleman and Hurney (even Hurney 1.0).  That's not to say either of them is a genius, but it would explain some inconsistencies. 

It would also explain how Hurney 2.0 is so radically different from Hurney 1.0.  Philosophy-wise, such a huge change is not consistent with human nature.  Usually, when a person is that different there is something more going on that learning or an epiphany.  Call me suspicious.

It's always possible Hurney 1.0 is still the guy, but Tepper is pushing atypical moves.  But, given what we know of JR, I think he was the more likely guy putting his thumb on the organization.  I grew up watching the Cardinal organization under Bill Bidwill.  They operated that way.

 

[pantherj]

Marty 1.0 was a mess. Payed two RBs too much money. Not handling the Jake situation correctly. Pushing Matt Moore. Drafting Pickles. Handing out bloated "thank you for the past" contracts.  

Marty 2.0:

"When I look back and I look back at some of the mistakes, it might have been that loyalty, the emotional part of my brain -- and that's when I've gotten in trouble with my life,"

He was referencing his professional and personal life. I think he really made a big change. I don't really have a feel for Tepper besides the fact that he keeps a close eye on everyone on the roster.

[raz]

14 hours ago, pantherj said:

 

Hurney really has done an amazing job imo, but the injury bug is holding us back. Cam and our good OTs are out, so beating a top tier team is unlikely. at situation.      

who are these good ot's that you speak of?     little who's played 1 game?  can't say he's good.  who else?   we don't have good ot's.   not even 1.   we don't have very good guards.  we don't have a very good center.   nobody on that line is good

[pantherj]

19 minutes ago, raz said:

who are these good ot's that you speak of?     little who's played 1 game?  can't say he's good.  who else?   we don't have good ot's.   not even 1.   we don't have very good guards.  we don't have a very good center.   nobody on that line is good

Your standards for what qualifies as a good player are different from mine, so it makes sense that you think we don't have a single good offensive lineman on the entire team. I don't agree, but I don't think either one of us wants to sit here and argue about it. Just as an example of the boring road this could lead down, I don't have your standard that a player has to play in a certain number of pro games to refer to him as being good at his position. Turner for example is a player who I might at one point have considered good very early in his career, and in a very short period of time changed my mind. Sometimes I'm going by the last game the player played if he has a very short career in the pros. You have good reserved for a certain performance level over some long term number of games and I don't know what that number is and I can't say I'm terribly interested to know.

I don't like our centers pass blocking at all, and although he maneuvers well in run blocking he lacks power, so I don't think our center is good. Moton doesn't belong at OT as I've said all along he needs to play OG where I think he would look good. Williams is certainly not good at OT. I don't really want to go into each o-lneman, but sufficed to say we have different standards.

[outlaw4]

On 10/29/2019 at 3:40 PM, Mr. Scot said:

So, ummm...yeah 

I suppose I could ask whether anybody's feelings have changed after this past weekend.

I hate it when I'm right, especially when my prediction was more than just a wild guess. It's the stigma of this franchise as a whole: being unable to maintain any level of success. Do I trust the team as it is to change that perception? Frankly, I don't and I can only hope Tepper is smart enough to realize we need some major changes once this season ends. Otherwise, we're having this same conversation in the future.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, outlaw4 said:

I hate it when I'm right, especially when my prediction was more than just a wild guess. It's the stigma of this franchise as a whole: being unable to maintain any level of success. Do I trust the team as it is to change that perception? Frankly, I don't and I can only hope Tepper is smart enough to realize we need some major changes once this season ends. Otherwise, we're having this same conversation in the future.

Ah yes, the actual topic of the thread...