McDaniels in Denver: What he learned

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't doubt that Ron is a good person, but I do question his self awareness.

Nothing I have ever seen/heard/read has suggested Ron is anything but a legitimately great guy. Unfortunately that didn't translate enough to being a great head coach.

Ron strikes me as a true believer. Unwavering trust in the "right way" of doing things. The issue with being a zealot, however, is that it leaves lots of blind spots. Hard to reflect and be critical when you have full belief in what you are doing. You don't look at the things you did wrong, you just look at the things others did wrong.

[45catfan]

The Patriots got eliminated last night, so does that mean McDaniels is bad choice now?  The last time I checked there is only only SB champion, so unless the Chiefs or Vikings win out, our other two candidates will get eventually eliminated too.  Will they be any less desirable of candidates short of a Super Bowl victory?

At any rate, I don't want this thing to drag out too much longer.  I think Tepper's top choice is available now so let's get the ball rolling.

 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Nothing I have ever seen/heard/read has suggested Ron is anything but a legitimately great guy. Unfortunately that didn't translate enough to being a great head coach.

Ron strikes me as a true believer. Unwavering trust in the "right way" of doing things. The issue with being a zealot, however, is that it leaves lots of blind spots. Hard to reflect and be critical when you have full belief in what you are doing. You don't look at the things you did wrong, you just look at the things others did wrong.

It's been kind of a weird journey with Rivera.

When he got here, he acted like a hard-ass in his initial presser. Then his first season didn't exactly go as planned and it was like he lost confidence.

He started asking questions. And I remember back in 2015 him telling the stories about going to Madden for advice and asking players for their opinions. I thought it was a good thing.

But then it was like the success of 2015 brought him back to being a stubborn, hard headed, "my way" guy. And his firing really seems to have turned him inside out.

Yeah, being fired does that to a guy, but still. And you're correct that he's doubling down on a lot of things that were part of the problem here.

I wish Rivera plenty of success in his new job (except against us, of course) but I do think he'd be wise to question himself a little more.

[ladypanther]

7 hours ago, Woodie said:

I posted this in another thread, but thought it has some good information about what McDaniels learned from his time as HC in Denver, and thought it would be of interest to many of you.

Thanks for the link.  That was a very good read.  It was a question I had.  Many here are referencing his failure in Denver as a reason not to hire him.  He was very young when he got that job.  He has had several years and experience in a couple of other systems besides the Patriots since he was fired.  The big question is what did he learn from that experience and how would he do things differently.  That article made me feel better about him if he is the hire.  Another big question would be the staff he would bring with him.

If Cam is healthy, I would love to see what McD would do with the offense.

[kungfoodude]

23 minutes ago, raz said:

there's another possibility you haven't considered that has nothing to do with a masters degree or having your head up your own ass.  he may be extra gifted in some areas and less gifted in others naturally.  that's what i meant by him being a little special.   it seriously may not have ever occurred to him he was lacking before.   i think bellicheck is a little special too, and that's what makes him so great.   bill has gotten better with people, maybe josh can too.   rivera had the people skills down pat but was still a failure and doesn't want to grow.    i feel a lot better about josh after reading that.  the spectrum is wide. lots of people who aren't too far on the spectrum learn the value of empathy in a workplace setting later in life.   #metoo

Bill isn't "special" he just refuses to give the media anything so he always looks bland and cold. If you dig into some snippets about Bill's personality(which I would suggest) you will actually find that he is nothing like the face he is showing the media, very intentionally so.

McDaniels on the other hand, from his own mouth, very clearly struggled with empathy. That is a terrible trait to possess when you are the head of a group of players and coaches that you are attempting to mold into a cohesive group. That is also something that if you just simply lack(empathy), isn't really easy to flip on like a light switch. 

McDaniels will get a head coaching job again, so we will get to see if he is capable of the sort of changes he talked about. It was great to see him be introspective, but a lot of the mistakes he talked about(micromanagement, lack of empathy, etc) are classic problems with poor leaders.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's been kind of a weird journey with Rivera.

When he got here, he acted like a hard-ass in his initial presser. Then his first season didn't exactly go as planned and it was like he lost confidence.

He started asking questions. And I remember back in 2015 him telling the stories about going to Madden for advice and asking players for their opinions. I thought it was a good thing.

But then it was like the success of 2015 brought him back to being a stubborn, hard headed, "my way" guy. And his firing really seems to have turned him inside out.

Yeah, being fired does that to a guy, but still. And you're correct that he's doubling down on a lot of things that were part of the problem here.

I wish Rivera plenty of success in his new job (except against us, of course) but I do think he'd be wise to question himself a little more.

I think part of the problem is that Ron probably lacks the ability to be effectively self critical. And, what I mean by that is that he likely can see the failures but has trouble being objective enough to realize his role in them. Not something that is uncommon. That is probably why those external influences factored so heavily. Basically, he needs someone(or multiple) people to help him with those kind of improvements. Look at what McCarthy was doing(and I am not saying it will be successful) when he decided to bring in a group of his buddies to help improve his playbooks. 

[Panthera onca]

After reading that I agree with what others have said above, that Josh is clearly on the spectrum. Empathy and self awareness are big issues with folks on the spectrum. It doesn’t mean he can’t overcome it, but it will be difficult. The risk would be huge. I have no doubt he’s a genius at football, it’s just whether he can inspire guys to play hard for him.

[MHS831]

7 hours ago, countryboi said:

In my experience people dont change that much, once and asshole always an asshole. 

I used to be a caterpillar, now look at me!

[MHS831]

I would say this---Bill Belichick and Sean Payton are the two best coaches in the NFL (Arguably).  Both come off as peckerheads.

That is not to say that every peckerhead deserves a head coaching job, or that every good coach is a peckerhead.

I am gonna leave that right there.   Let it fester and stew.  You will see.

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, Panthera onca said:

After reading that I agree with what others have said above, that Josh is clearly on the spectrum. Empathy and self awareness are big issues with folks on the spectrum. It doesn’t mean he can’t overcome it, but it will be difficult. The risk would be huge. I have no doubt he’s a genius at football, it’s just whether he can inspire guys to play hard for him.

I agree that those are characteristics of people on the spectrum, and I have heard the argument that we are all on the spectrum to some degree; but to diagnose him with autism based on an article is dangerously speculative.  If you mean overcoming autism, by the way--and I do not think that is what you meant---I think you meant developing support systems to prevent it from becoming a bigger problem than it could be.

I watched him interact with Brady on the sideline, etc.  I am not seeing the stereotypical body language someone on the high end of the spectrum might have.  Just an observation and opinion.

[TheRumGone]

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I would say this---Bill Belichick and Sean Payton are the two best coaches in the NFL (Arguably).  Both come off as peckerheads.

That is not to say that every peckerhead deserves a head coaching job, or that every good coach is a peckerhead.

I am gonna leave that right there.   Let it fester and stew.  You will see.

I’ve said it before being an asshole isn’t necessarily a bad thing in a leadership position. McDaniels stint in Denver goes beyond being an asshole.

[MHS831]

Just now, TheRumGone said:

I’ve said it before being an asshole isn’t necessarily a bad thing in a leadership position. McDaniels stint in Denver goes beyond being an asshole.

I guess--from what we know and the way it is presented, I agree---it was more paranoia and maybe a touch of narcissism?  He was young, and when I was younger, I had a minor flaw that has since been resolved, obviously.

Seriously, you are correct and he is dangerously risky, in my opinion.  While he acknowledges what he did, there is no guarantee he will not become that again.  People say anything to get what they want.

[45catfan]

Quote

 

The dynamic on this forum is so vastly different.  Some want a field general and others seemingly want a yoga instructor.  True, you can't be a complete a$$hole, but we are talking about a football team here.  It appears MCDaniels has let up a bit to consider how he affects others, but the last thing I want is a daily feelings class held in the locker room with incense and therapy music playing softly in the background.

[TheRumGone]

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I guess--from what we know and the way it is presented, I agree---it was more paranoia and maybe a touch of narcissism?  He was young, and when I was younger, I had a minor flaw that has since been resolved, obviously.

Seriously, you are correct and he is dangerously risky, in my opinion.  While he acknowledges what he did, there is no guarantee he will not become that again.  People say anything to get what they want.

Yeah the problem is that I don’t see this as a minor flaw. There is no doubting he is an offensive guru. Really smart and able to adapt to personnel and all of that. But the leadership questions are extremely scary. I hope those of us who question them on here are wrong because I think he’s more than likely gonna be our next coach.