What could we get for CMC?

[TheRumGone]

6 minutes ago, Rags said:

 

Okay since. Both of you keep moving the sticks and ignoring the parts where I agree with both of your arguments (Red, I said we need better team building and Rum, I've said solely pounding the rock is not sustainable and they need better QB play,)

Let's play a hypothetical.

Let's say you have a team, your QB is Prime Andy Dalton, Prime A.J. Green, and Prime CMac.

Who's the focal point of that offense? Is it still Dalton just because you have competent QB play?

And before you say "Dalton is a bum" this Bum helped lead his team to 5 straight playoff appearances.  And no, not all of the losses were on him.

Cmac would still be the focal point of that offense. Even if he wouldn't be a record breaker, his talent is still undeniable. Teams are forced to adjust to it. This would make Dalton better. This would make Green better. Everyone in the fuging league knows what Cmac can do to you.

Don't like the Cmac usage there? Let's change the HB to Adrian Peterson, a HB that took elite care of his body to still be able to produce at a consistent level.

A focal point of an offense isn't always your QB.

Nobody said having a strong running game isn’t important but tying up big money in a running back while you have no other pieces won’t translate into success. You’re forgetting timing of contracts, players windows, etc. 

if you have prime Andy, prime AJ and prime cmc you’re looking at close to 250-300 million in contracts. All three of those players can get 100 million contract. Your team is gonna suck ass in other areas. It is not sustainable. We obviously want a strong run game. But teams have shown you do that in other ways besides giving one rb a monster contract. Name the teams that have given their rbs monster contracts then tell me which of those teams are in the playoffs consistently. It’s the teams with plus qb play that are in the playoffs consistently. 

[imminent rogaine]

1 hour ago, joemac said:

Tell that to the Raiders and the Giants.

And the 1990s cowboys who went from the worst team in the league to a historical championship team by trading a key asset.

[imminent rogaine]

Also, some of the teams that might be interested (sf,Ne,KC) would have to look at what cmc did on a horrid team with shitty talent and shitty coaching and dream about what he could do on their teams with their superior talent and superior coaching. ...CMC might catch 15 balls a game

[DubE_4MR]

1 hour ago, TheRumGone said:

If that’s the case then expect 3-5 win seasons a year. The centerpiece needs to be a quarterback.

You act like we're just going to have CMC and put Brian St. Pierre at QB. They will draft a QB at some point and having CMC as a weapon will make that QB that much better.

[Carl Spackler]

So D.J. Moore would be the best player on our 0-16 team? No thanks.

[Rags]

20 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

Nobody said having a strong running game isn’t important but tying up big money in a running back while you have no other pieces won’t translate into success. You’re forgetting timing of contracts, players windows, etc. 

if you have prime Andy, prime AJ and prime cmc you’re looking at close to 250-300 million in contracts. All three of those players can get 100 million contract. Your team is gonna suck ass in other areas. It is not sustainable. We obviously want a strong run game. But teams have shown you do that in other ways besides giving one rb a monster contract. Name the teams that have given their rbs monster contracts then tell me which of those teams are in the playoffs consistently. It’s the teams with plus qb play that are in the playoffs consistently. 

Cmc isn't just a running back for one, that's the difference. That's the entire point. You can do that right now while we have literally no one else to pay and by the time we do have to pay people, CMC's contract will more than likely be dumpable if we need to move on. Contracts in the NFL are backloaded like a mother fuger. Teams do it all the time, good and bad. We're gonna be stocking up on cheap talent unless we suddenly become big spenders in the FA.

Making him the highest paid HB sounds scary, but when you consider the fact that we'd really only be in strapped through him for 2-3 years of it, it's not that bad.

But yeah if we had other talent we'd have to consider, sure, I'd get it, and I'd agree. But if we think we can compete in the next 2-4 seasons, and we feel CMC can be a part of it, there's no risk here keeping the best thing on our team and going out and getting our own Andy. 

[TheRumGone]

2 minutes ago, Rags said:

Cmc isn't just a running back for one, that's the difference. That's the entire point. You can do that right now while we have literally no one else to pay and by the time we do have to pay people, CMC's contract will more than likely be dumpable if we need to move on. Contracts in the NFL are backloaded like a mother fuger. Teams do it all the time, good and bad. We're gonna be stocking up on cheap talent unless we suddenly become big spenders in the FA.

Making him the highest paid HB sounds scary, but when you consider the fact that we'd really only be in strapped through him for 2-3 years of it, it's not that bad.

But yeah if we had other talent we'd have to consider, sure, I'd get it, and I'd agree. But if we think we can compete in the next 2-4 seasons, and we feel CMC can be a part of it, there's no risk here keeping the best thing on our team and going out and getting our own Andy. 

The point of this is trading cmc now for high picks while we suck would give us a better shot at competing sooner than giving him a monster contract and then by the time we could compete he’s done. I don’t think the panthers are gonna do that. General fans would not understand and riot if we lost Greg, Luke, cmc, and cam in a single offseason. But it’s honestly smart.

[Rags]

1 minute ago, TheRumGone said:

The point of this is trading cmc now for high picks while we suck would give us a better shot at competing sooner than giving him a monster contract and then by the time we could compete he’s done. I don’t think the panthers are gonna do that. General fans would not understand and riot if we lost Greg, Luke, cmc, and cam in a single offseason. But it’s honestly smart.

I definitely Get it. As long as we make the most of those picks, we can definitely rebuild faster.

But a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I think it'll be harder to replace a talent level like Cmac than whatever we could get in the draft, and I think we're far enough off where we don't need to try to rush it, we can take our time and build without an excess of picks.

But I definitely get the other side of the coin, first round talent is hard to come by, and looking at moves teams like Giants, Raiders and Dolphins have made me kind of want to do the same.

 

[TheRumGone]

3 minutes ago, Rags said:

I definitely Get it. As long as we make the most of those picks, we can definitely rebuild faster.

But a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I think it'll be harder to replace a talent level like Cmac than whatever we could get in the draft, and I think we're far enough off where we don't need to try to rush it, we can take our time and build without an excess of picks.

But I definitely get the other side of the coin, first round talent is hard to come by, and looking at moves teams like Giants, Raiders and Dolphins have made me kind of want to do the same.

 

I won’t be happy with cmc being traded if it happens. He’s a ton of fun to watch. But in the grand scheme if we can’t compete for the majority of his contract then it doesn’t even matter. I want to win above all else. There is obviously risk in hoping we hit on the picks. But it’s a calculated risk and I would understand it if we’re going full rebuild.

[Matthias]

10 hours ago, Reebis21 said:

Hot take, unrealistic, pointless conversation? Yea maybe.

Most people assume we are keeping CMC. There’s been no indication we wouldn’t. For ticket sales alone, I think he’ll be a Panther. I know this isn’t Madden, but anything could happen. 
 

Not advocating we trade CMC at all. Simply curious. What kind of package do you think we could get for him?

 

Now that we are in rebuilding mode, I wouldn't say this is a crazy idea at all.  Particularly because of the position he plays.  CMC can do it all and then some, but with Kuechly retiring and Cam's best years behind him, building for the future of sustained success (not just a winning season here and there) is more appealing than watching spectacular highlights of one player.  Shoot, we got a coach whose leaning toward a 4-3 defense, but we just drafted Brian Burns to star in a 3-4.  A lot of moves need to be made for our team, and I'm not advocating to get rid of Burns.

[Rags]

10 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

I won’t be happy with cmc being traded if it happens. He’s a ton of fun to watch. But in the grand scheme if we can’t compete for the majority of his contract then it doesn’t even matter. I want to win above all else. There is obviously risk in hoping we hit on the picks. But it’s a calculated risk and I would understand it if we’re going full rebuild.

I agree, as a fan it would suck. Not as much as Cam or Smitty because he wasn't here as long, but it'd suck.

But sometimes you just can't replace talent. I truly feel Cmac is one of those players, I'd say this if he was a Falcon (and of course I'd want them to trade him, lol) much like I do Julio. It's not common but some postions that aren't QB can consistently elevate the level of play of his teammates, while lowering the skill floor of players around him that they need to succeed. That is my big hesitation with trading CMac.

[electro's horse]

they also don't have to do anything on him since they have a 5th year option

[Waldo]

I would perfer to keep him and put him on IR next year because i expect it to be an amazing waste of CMC.

It would also be hard to not take a long look at a rediculous trade offer. Like two 1st and two 2nds 1-15 picks. That is rebuild your team ammo right there. A new QB, LT, DT and HB combined with our picks...should be  easy but depends on who is running the rebuild.

Still would perfer to keep him and just get through next year.

[electro's horse]

1 hour ago, TheRed said:

@electro's horse is the guy who will slam fans of players like Cam Newton as "Vick fans" yet turn around and advocate nuking our salary cap to make a running back the highest paid at his position even if we don't have a franchise guy behind center.

So basically he is everything he has railed against, a "player only" fan.

I've never once slammed fans of players like cam newton (whatever that means) as vick fans, and I'm not sure there's anyone on this forum who was shitting harder on CMC before this year than I was. 

i'd challenge you to find the post where i did that but we both know you'd just slither away