A Path to Trevor or Fields---without "Tanking"

[pantherclaw]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

You guys have the dumbest arguments against tanking. The Browns rebuild didn’t work because they legitimately drafted so bad that 90% of their 1st round picks were the biggest busts.

Again, we, the Carolina Panthers, tanked twice and both times drafted studs who helped us get to multiple playoffs and a SB each time.

It’s a lazy post to ignore our own history and compare tanking to being the Browns, the team who has the worst rebuilding record in the NFL.

Also, tanking <> trying to lose games. It means don’t try to sign mediocre FAs to try and get to 7-9. It means to try and build up more picks and position yourself to get better talent instead of building around guys who finished the last two years 1-15. It means to identify the weapons you have that you can build around.

Maybe you guys have enjoyed the 1-15 finishes and don’t want to blow up the phenomenal play we’ve seen the past two years. I do.

Doesn't matter the rebuild. The culture you set in place by tanking is a losing culture. fug that stupidity.  

[MHS831]

10 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

All of this is based on whoever's got the first being willing to trade it. Chances are whoever has that slot needs a QB and isn't going to give that up for a 1st and some 2nds.

Or second.  But only 1 draft in the last 5 has had 2 qbs go one and two.  Since there are 2 qbs who are good enough (at this time), it is possible. 

Personally, I was simply describing how you could be in position to make the move--but you are right--this is a very risky plan--we brought in Brady for a reason--so I doubt we go after the best QB.   I think we would take Trevor, but we are not counting on it....Part of me wonders if Plan A is not simply to start working with Grier.

 

[stbugs]

2 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Doesn't matter the rebuild. The culture you set in place by tanking is a losing culture. fug that stupidity.  

Do you remember 2001 and 2010? We tanked. People like Gross and I think Schwartz have even talked recently about what we did before. Did 2010 install that losing culture? Did 2001? Don’t be upset that you are wrong about your assumption. Everyone just points to the Browns. I don’t want to be the Browns, yada yada. We aren’t the Browns. We’ve done two complete rebuilds and we made the SB within 5 years and the playoffs within 3 years both times. This losing culture argument is flimsy. The rebuild doesn’t work if we draft like poo and don’t take advantage of the talent available. Look at the current team. We couldn’t be in worse shape. The difference between us and the Saints is that lately, they’ve drafted many many solid starters. We’ve got CMC, Moton and Moore and a hodge podge of contributors or mediocre starters and we’ve lost many solid contributors.

[TheRed]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Do you remember 2001 and 2010? We tanked. People like Gross and I think Schwartz have even talked recently about what we did before. Did 2010 install that losing culture? Did 2001? Don’t be upset that you are wrong about your assumption. Everyone just points to the Browns. I don’t want to be the Browns, yada yada. We aren’t the Browns. We’ve done two complete rebuilds and we made the SB within 5 years and the playoffs within 3 years both times. This losing culture argument is flimsy. The rebuild doesn’t work if we draft like poo and don’t take advantage of the talent available. Look at the current team. We couldn’t be in worse shape. The difference between us and the Saints is that lately, they’ve drafted many many solid starters. We’ve got CMC, Moton and Moore and a hodge podge of contributors or mediocre starters and we’ve lost many solid contributors.

We might actually be a more well rounded team rn if we drafted like the Saints the last few years. Kamara in the third is an absolute steal. As much as I love CMC I'll never advocate drafting an RB in the top ten again. Just not worth the double massive investment in the draft selection and then impending massive contract. That's a move you make if you're one piece away from making a run. We have to be smart from here on out.

I'm tired of arguing about tanking, if we lose we lose. But fans with beer guts talking about team culture being irrelevant really don't have a leg to stand on. Especially if they are simultaneously wanting to emulate other successful teams while talking out the side of their neck about tanking. Which is it? You want to be the worst or the best? Did Joe Brady come here to be on one of the shittiest teams in the league? stbugs would have you believe so apparently.

[MHS831]

14 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Doesn't matter the rebuild. The culture you set in place by tanking is a losing culture. fug that stupidity.  

Here is how I see it:

There is a long-term transformation (not rebuild) in place---ownership, front office, coaches, and players.  Winning in 2020 is not the priority.  That is not to suggest that you lose.  This thread was to demonstrate how you can make trades that give you the opportunity to move up in the draft for a QB---since there were "tanking" threads. 

You play to win.  However, you build by giving raw rookies and developmental players opportunity.  Most Huddlers have already written Greg Little off, are ready to call Jackson a bust, and think Grier is handicapped.  We have not developed talent. We have to draft better.  We have to coach better. 

In 2020, draft players (OL. DL, CB, WR) that usually take a year to develop if given the opportunity. (That is what Rhule did at Temple and Baylor--he brought in players not worthy of a scholarship elsewhere and in 3 years, won because his players were not better athletes, they were more experienced.) 

If we trade, make the trades for 2021 picks.  Then you can move around the second phase of this process to target needs--like QB.

I suggest bringing in a "bust" first rounder (Mariota, Trubiski, Carr) who could play well with the coaching and the system.  If that is the case, or Grier becomes a stud, then we would not prioritize QB and could use the picks to move up and grab-4 or 5  day 1 or day 2 picks.

[TheRed]

Kick Cam fugging Newton out the door to bring in Trubisky or Carr? 

I'd rather start Allen or Grier.

[onmyown]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Kick Cam fugging Newton out the door to bring in Trubisky or Carr? 

I'd rather start Allen or Grier.

I’d tend to agree. Well, with Grier. We know what we have in Allen. And I don’t like the idea of signing anyone to a contract if you know they’re not the future. No one is ‘kicking’ cam to the curb. He might not want to play on a one year deal and it’d be stupid to sign him long term. Pretty good reasons for both parties to split. If the future isn’t drafted this year then yea put Grier in and draft the future next season.

[MHS831]

23 minutes ago, onmyown said:

I’d tend to agree. Well, with Grier. We know what we have in Allen. And I don’t like the idea of signing anyone to a contract if you know they’re not the future. No one is ‘kicking’ cam to the curb. He might not want to play on a one year deal and it’d be stupid to sign him long term. Pretty good reasons for both parties to split. If the future isn’t drafted this year then yea put Grier in and draft the future next season.

You are looking at injury and age---if they play well, they play well.  How many Tennessee fans were saying the same thing about Tanneyhill?

I think the Cam thing is much deeper than we realize.  Everything you do from this point is not about Cam.  This thread begins under the assumption that that ship has sailed.  If you bring in a 26-year old, never injured QB and he plays well, it could change your short-term thinking.  You have labeled these QBs because they have been inconsistent in one system.  You may be right, but you have a chance to consider all options and NOT base decisions on bias.  We have Brady--let's see what he can do before selling the farm for #1 pick. 

[MHS831]

19 minutes ago, onmyown said:

I’d tend to agree. Well, with Grier. We know what we have in Allen. And I don’t like the idea of signing anyone to a contract if you know they’re not the future. No one is ‘kicking’ cam to the curb. He might not want to play on a one year deal and it’d be stupid to sign him long term. Pretty good reasons for both parties to split. If the future isn’t drafted this year then yea put Grier in and draft the future next season.

And that (Grier) may be Plan A (See what Brady can do).  But a competition between 2 is not bad either--it is a golden time to see what you can do with game managers before committing.  We all need to think 3 year transformation, not 1 year reload/rebuild.

[MMA]

You would have to trade two farms for Trevor Lawrence. 

[rippadonn]

17 hours ago, TheRed said:

The talk of tanking is enticing in the middle of February when your team is awful. But losing and losing very badly on a consistent basis is a good way to ensure your team culture will be in the toilet for the foreseeable future. How many years was it that Newton got poo for hating losing? We need sore losers on this damn team. Not cry babies wanting us to continue being the worst team in the league and watching the Saints and Falcons laugh at us. At this point I feel like this should have been the year for us to back our way into the first overall pick. We didn't, and that's what the hand we were dealt. Now we have to possibly consider if moving up to take our guy is an option this year. We have to at the very least consider it.

Yes, friggin' move on if that's what you want to do. Stop friggin' with the fan base in a stupid strategy play of some sort. Your post makes the most sense, if you're going to move on, move up and get Tua or somebody. This cloak and dagger secrecy around Cam is amateurish and isn't respectful of fans or Cam. I'm starting to wonder about this Tepper. Not good at PR and could soon rub a lot of day one fans the wrong way. Honeymoon is over.

I for one am beyond tired of this controversy because ultimately Tepper knows what he wants to do. Well....do that sht bro. Turning this team into a loser for any reason is ridiculous and NO Tepper, you get no pass, you don't get 5yrs, you've already been here two, get your ars in gear. Stop playing games and soaking up face time. Do it and be done.

 

[TheRed]

5 minutes ago, rippadonn said:

Yes, friggin' move on if that's what you want to do. Stop friggin' with the fan base in a stupid strategy play of some sort. Your post makes the most sense, if you're going to move on, move up and get Tua or somebody. This cloak and dagger secrecy around Cam is amateurish and isn't respectful of fans or Cam. I'm starting to wonder about this Tepper. Not good at PR and could soon rub a lot of day one fans the wrong way. Honeymoon is over.

I for one am beyond tired of this controversy because ultimately Tepper knows what he wants to do. Well....do that sht bro. Turning this team into a loser for any reason is ridiculous and NO Tepper, you get no pass, you don't get 5yrs, you've already been here two, get your ars in gear. Stop playing games and soaking up face time. Do it and be done.

 

At this point with Tepper it's starting to enter he just "likes hearing himself talk" territory. Not all publicity is good publicity. Sometimes it's best to leave things unsaid. Especially after he's already talked about a multiyear rebuild. He's just throwing fuel on the flames unnecessarily before we've even gotten things off the ground for the upcoming season. Fans that think this won't possibly come with a cost are lying to themselves. We've already had players chirping aloud on social media, guys on our team have literally come out and said severing ties with Cam could be a big mistake. All eyes are on Tep, and so far he's done little to swing the pendulum the other way from hysteria. If anything he's fed it more. Someone besides Marty Hurney needs to get in his ear.

[1of10Charnatives]

14 hours ago, JARROD said:

Man I’m not pulling for sucking.

again, I’m a spades fanatic and hate hearts.

you guys all play hearts.

UNO!

[mc52beast]

19 hours ago, joemac said:

Joe Brady is going to turn Will Grier into the next Mahomes.

If he does we replace the statue of JR with one of Brady