Panther defense most conservative in the league.

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I wouldn't say "steadily gotten better". They've been up and down all year.

The big debate everybody's having now is whether you blame it on the personnel or the coaching. In reality it's both, but who's more to blame?

My answer: I don't know.

Good point and why it seems germaine to look situationally. If we suck all the time it is personnel, if it varies greatly based on the situation, it reflects as much or more on coaching. Yeah an oversimplication but you get the point.

[Mr. Scot]

To be clear, I'm not necessarily a big Phil Snow fan but there is one thing I would point out.

One of the big criticisms has been his going conservative/prevent late in the game and that ending up costing us. That is something that happens all over the league, even with guys who are acknowledged to be great defensive coordinators.

Snow is far from unique on that front.

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

Good point and why it seems germaine to look situationally. If we suck all the time it is personnel, if it varies greatly based on the situation, it reflects as much or more on coaching. Yeah an oversimplication but you get the point.

It is a good point---but we do know that both coach and players should be more experienced next year.

I am impressed that we are better than advertised. More interested in measuring progress through growth vs. expectations than norm-referenced comparisons at this time.  Our defense is challenged with obstacles that are unique to these players only--new coaches, buncha rookies, no preseason (bigger problem for 4 rookies expected to start/play a big role).

[Mr. Scot]

On the personnel front, it looks like the Tahir Whitehead experiment is over, but if we're still putting Tre Boston out there next year... 

[panthers55]

22 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

  I really think we are questioning why the driver's ed class students are not winning at Daytona.  You can hide 1 or 2 weak players/rookies, but 4-5?  We have a lot of growing to do.  Is this part of that process?  I hope so.

Nope. It is more like why when we have our guys drive go carts at daytona (3 man prevent) do we look terrible, but when we drive the same thing everyone else drives (4 man base with disguised looks) we look much better with the exact same drivers? Truth is our rookies are not the problem and actually are the reason we don't suck more.

[panthers55]

11 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

It is a good point---but we do know that both coach and players should be more experienced next year.

I am impressed that we are better than advertised. More interested in measuring progress through growth vs. expectations than norm-referenced comparisons at this time.  Our defense is challenged with obstacles that are unique to these players only--new coaches, buncha rookies, no preseason (bigger problem for 4 rookies expected to start/play a big role).

Honestly I never bought the whole notion we would suck as the year went on. Partly because offenses take more timing and precision which takes time to develop  I expected us to get better as we went. The problem is that we aren't getting better unless we are bringing pressure. We don't have the secondary to sit back in zone all day. But we might hold better if it was 3 seconds or less. So the notion a passive zone is better for our personnel makes no sense. If your secondary is weak you have to get pressure not give the offense all day to find the holes in your zone. Football 101.

[onmyown]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

The defense has gotten better in what regard?

Just going by the overall rankings from week 1 to now. Which may be a bit skewed since the last stretch of games were much easier than the first.

[MechaZain]

3 hours ago, nctarheelreincarnated said:

Panthers fan base is quite an interesting bunch, especially on the Huddle. Continuing to blame a coach, when he's working with College players for over half his starters, and he's somehow better than last year with Rivera is so fascinating to me. Let's wait until he gets a full plethora of defensive players, shall we? This year was a throw away year, and the coaches have proven their worth so far. Saying he hasn't done more with less, when in fact he has. Is a bit moronic. That shows how the Huddle is though. So, that sentiment doesn't shock me at all. 

I get it but he signed up for this. His whole job is to make it work with what he's got. My problem with the "he's exceeding expectations" camp is that you guys have set the bar so low he can do no wrong. 

If you truly consider this a free year for him fine. That's very generous of you. I see a coach who just puts his guys in zone every down and hopes someone makes a play on the ball. I've got no reason to believe he can outcoach offenses even if he gets more talent.

 

 

[AceBoogie]

20 hours ago, Shotgun said:

Our d is 15th in points allowed per game. Our o is 21st in points scored.  

Offense would score more if the defense could get off the field. 

[nctarheelreincarnated]

59 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

I get it but he signed up for this. His whole job is to make it work with what he's got. My problem with the "he's exceeding expectations" camp is that you guys have set the bar so low he can do no wrong. 

If you truly consider this a free year for him fine. That's very generous of you. I see a coach who just puts his guys in zone every down and hopes someone makes a play on the ball. I've got no reason to believe he can outcoach offenses even if he gets more talent.

 

 

It's a free year, and he shut down Detroit to the tune of zero points. A week after allowing over 40 to the Bucs. Once the talent is upped, we're going to see how good he actually is. Again the defense is better with starting 5-6 Rookies per week, compared to last year which had a HOFer, and a ton of Vets. You guys expect results, when we're rebuilding? HA! Good luck with that. 

[panthers55]

44 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

Offense would score more if the defense could get off the field. 

That is a good point. Not only do we let opposing offenses run 10-15 play drives all day, we also don't give our guys good good field position except on turnovers given we don't stop anyone and start a lot of drives deep.in our territory 

[kungfoodude]

59 minutes ago, onmyown said:

Just going by the overall rankings from week 1 to now. Which may be a bit skewed since the last stretch of games were much easier than the first.

Eh....our DVOA ratings have been up and down, as have our yards allowed and points allowed. I can't say definitively we are performing better now but I see growth in the younger players and core players. That's really what I measure success this year by.

[panthers55]

7 minutes ago, nctarheelreincarnated said:

It's a free year, and he shut down Detroit to the tune of zero points. A week after allowing over 40 to the Bucs. Once the talent is upped, we're going to see how good he actually is. Again the defense is better with starting 5-6 Rookies per week, compared to last year which had a HOFer, and a ton of Vets. You guys expect results, when we're rebuilding? HA! Good luck with that. 

He shut down Detroit with an aggressive scheme. Against the Bucs it was prevent defense and very little blitzing between the 20s. But against Minnesota we keep them to 10 with an aggressive scheme and blow it late with the prevent defense. He has the players to do better now. The players when aggressive have done well this year in the last 2 games. What he has shown is a tendency to be poor situationally like on 3rd down where we suck terribly. That has little to do with personnel and hopefully improves with more experience. But unless he changes, it won't matter who the personnel is. Bad schemes don't amazing change even with better personnel.

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

He shut down Detroit with an aggressive scheme. Against the Bucs it was prevent defense and very little blitzing between the 20s. But against Minnesota we keep them to 10 with an aggressive scheme and blow it late with the prevent defense. He has the players to do better now. The players when aggressive have done well this year in the last 2 games. What he has shown is a tendency to be poor situationally like on 3rd down where we suck terribly. That has little to do with personnel and hopefully improves with more experience. But unless he changes, it won't matter who the personnel is. Bad schemes don't amazing change even with better personnel.

It's a leap to say he has the players to do better. We are still a very weak defense talent-wise.