What is under achieving this year and how do you address it.

[BrianS]

I don't really even like the implication that we are under achieving this year.

We knew going into the year that with a new staff, a HUGE roster turnover, extremely limited offseason and no pre-season it was going to be a tough year.  If someone told me prior to the season that I'd need to watch all four quarters of every game to find out who won or lost, I'd have bit your arm off for that.  And we've done it mostly without our best player.

This team has played hard every week, with the one exception.  We've competed with teams who have massively more talent.  We've done it with a VERY young squad.

This year has exceeded my expectations in nearly every way.  My biggest disappointment is that given all the Joe Brady hype, our offense has really let us down in some key situations this year.

[Ricky Spanish]

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

I don't really even like the implication that we are under achieving this year.

We knew going into the year that with a new staff, a HUGE roster turnover, extremely limited offseason and no pre-season it was going to be a tough year.  If someone told me prior to the season that I'd need to watch all four quarters of every game to find out who won or lost, I'd have bit your arm off for that.  And we've done it mostly without our best player.

This team has played hard every week, with the one exception.  We've competed with teams who have massively more talent.  We've done it with a VERY young squad.

This year has exceeded my expectations in nearly every way.  My biggest disappointment is that given all the Joe Brady hype, our offense has really let us down in some key situations this year.

Agree with everything but I'm willing to give Brady some slack as this is his first year calling plays ever. He'll learn and grow... Hopefully. 

[Carl Spackler]

8 hours ago, jfra78 said:

Until recentley, December was Rivera's strongest month. We really dont know how a Rhule led team will do in December

I have a pretty good idea

[kungfoodude]

We are already overachieving versus most expectations outside the franchise, I would think. In that case, we are on track or ahead of schedule as far as the rebuilding. 

But, that could easily be derailed by a mass exodus of large chunks of our top 15 players on the roster this offseason. It's conceivable that happens.

[JawnyBlaze]

QB is the biggest underachieving spot, followed by MLB. We get good players at those two spots and we’re in business. Nail some draft picks and FA signings on the OL and CB and we’re dangerous. 

[BrianS]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

But, that could easily be derailed by a mass exodus of large chunks of our top 15 players on the roster this offseason. It's conceivable that happens.

Always a concern . . . but . . . . who are our top 15 players and how many of them are actually FA's?  Moton and Samuel are the obvious ones, and it may be an unsupported opinion, but I really believe we're going to find a way to keep Moton.

After those two, I dunno, Rasul Douglas?  I don't think we'll have problems retaining him if we so desire.

Mike Davis . . . we could have trouble with him.  He's been really good for us this year, and it's honestly a question of whether he wants to stay to be the backup to CMC.  Someone will offer him a chance to compete, he's shown himself to be starting caliber.  I'd say we're likely to lose him, but not a guarantee.

Russell Okung?  Do not want.  I hope we do lose him.  Honestly, even though he hasn't played much, that trade got us out from under Trai Turners contract, and I really believe that was a good thing.  As much as our interior OL has suffered this year, Turner seemed to be trending downward.

John Miller . . . tough one.  He hasn't always been very good to the eye, but he's actually grading out as "average".

I dunno, our free agents just don't scare me all that much once you get past the Moton / Samuel problem.  Obviously we'll resign some of them, and bring in others.

 

 

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 12/11/2020 at 1:13 AM, OldhamA said:

I thought Rhule was doing an exceptional job, but the wheels have come off if we don't win another game this year.

Denver are a bad team. We should have beaten Minnesota. If we don't beat a Ron Rivera led team we're in trouble. 

F' your higher Draft pick, I want to develop a winning culture.

Denver is much better than you give them credit for.  Washington is playing good football too. Just ask Pittsburgh. Both of those teams have very good defenses.  

I think with the Samuel being back in the lineup we might have a chance.  Kerr hurts on defense because Denver is a good running team.  

Regardless of how we finish this team is heading in the right direction and if we nail this next draft I think we'll be much more competitive next year.  Those one score games will go in our favor next year. 

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, BrianS said:

Always a concern . . . but . . . . who are our top 15 players and how many of them are actually FA's?  Moton and Samuel are the obvious ones, and it may be an unsupported opinion, but I really believe we're going to find a way to keep Moton.

After those two, I dunno, Rasul Douglas?  I don't think we'll have problems retaining him if we so desire.

Mike Davis . . . we could have trouble with him.  He's been really good for us this year, and it's honestly a question of whether he wants to stay to be the backup to CMC.  Someone will offer him a chance to compete, he's shown himself to be starting caliber.  I'd say we're likely to lose him, but not a guarantee.

Russell Okung?  Do not want.  I hope we do lose him.  Honestly, even though he hasn't played much, that trade got us out from under Trai Turners contract, and I really believe that was a good thing.  As much as our interior OL has suffered this year, Turner seemed to be trending downward.

John Miller . . . tough one.  He hasn't always been very good to the eye, but he's actually grading out as "average".

I dunno, our free agents just don't scare me all that much once you get past the Moton / Samuel problem.  Obviously we'll resign some of them, and bring in others.

 

 

If you constantly replace 30-40% of your starters every year, you aren't going to be very successful as a franchise.

[BrianS]

5 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

If you constantly replace 30-40% of your starters every year, you aren't going to be very successful as a franchise.

You're making two very different arguments here.  What you said was you were concerned about a mass exodus of our top 15 players.  This is what I addressed.  We only have a handful of our top 15 players hitting FA this year, effectively, it's not a concern.

If instead you're saying there is concern over turning 30-40% of your roster, that's a very different thing.  In the case of big roster turnover, there are times when that is needed.  I think we'd be silly to say that 2019 to 2020 wasn't one of those times.  We had a team that had grown very stagnant, and needed a hard shake.  Bear in mind, the NFL average is 20-25% turnover . . . so 30% isn't really huge in comparison.

Also keep in mind, that over his first two seasons Pete Carroll turned over 49 of 52 players on that Seahawks team.  Sometimes high turnover is warranted, and you simply cannot do it all at once.  Likewise John Dorsey turned over something like 63% of the Browns roster from 2017 to 2018.  Seems like they might have fired him about 9 months too soon, as the Browns finally look like an actual NFL team now, largely because of what Dorsey did.

 

 

 

[kungfoodude]

49 minutes ago, BrianS said:

You're making two very different arguments here.  What you said was you were concerned about a mass exodus of our top 15 players.  This is what I addressed.  We only have a handful of our top 15 players hitting FA this year, effectively, it's not a concern.

If instead you're saying there is concern over turning 30-40% of your roster, that's a very different thing.  In the case of big roster turnover, there are times when that is needed.  I think we'd be silly to say that 2019 to 2020 wasn't one of those times.  We had a team that had grown very stagnant, and needed a hard shake.  Bear in mind, the NFL average is 20-25% turnover . . . so 30% isn't really huge in comparison.

Also keep in mind, that over his first two seasons Pete Carroll turned over 49 of 52 players on that Seahawks team.  Sometimes high turnover is warranted, and you simply cannot do it all at once.  Likewise John Dorsey turned over something like 63% of the Browns roster from 2017 to 2018.  Seems like they might have fired him about 9 months too soon, as the Browns finally look like an actual NFL team now, largely because of what Dorsey did.

 

 

 

No, you just aren't understanding. I said top 15 players, which would be a pretty good chunk of our starters. If you replace that many of our starters every year, that is a problem. Ultimate worst case scenario, we may lose 10 starters from the team. Even if a chunk of those are upgrades, that isn't a good scenario to have that much turnover.