Devin White... Micah Parsons

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

People forgot that Luke also played a position what was extremely important in the system we ran.  In a Tampa-2 style defense the MLB often has deep 3rd coverage responsibility.  Luke had a lot of influence in the passing defense, that is where a lot of his value was.  

MLB might not really be as influential in the defense we run now.  Positional value can heavily be influenced by scheme, we might already have our Kuechly with Chinn. 

This staff might value LB like our old staff did safety.

 

 

We never ran a Tampa 2 under Rivera. Our defense was primarily built around cover 3 concepts.

[AU-panther]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We never ran a Tampa 2 under Rivera. Our defense was primarily built around cover 3 concepts.

yes we did, that is why Luke would cover deep 3rd.

Cover 3 is thirds with FS taking deep middle, Tampa 2 is basically the same but the MLB takes deep middle.

Here is an article that even talks about his affinity for it:

How will the Redskins scheme change with Ron Rivera in 2020? | PFN (profootballnetwork.com)

This is another reason we didn't value safeties as much as other teams.  In a tampa 2 they are only responsible for the outside thirds.

Edited January 18, 2021 by AU-panther

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

yes we did, that is why Luke would cover deep 3rd.

Cover 3 is thirds with FS taking deep middle, Tampa 2 is basically the same but the MLB takes deep middle.

Here is an article that even talks about his affinity for it:

How will the Redskins scheme change with Ron Rivera in 2020? | PFN (profootballnetwork.com)

This is another reason we didn't value safeties as much as other teams.  In a tampa 2 they are only responsible for the outside thirds.

We ran some cover 2 looks. Every team does. But cover 2 was never our primary base scheme.

[AU-panther]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We ran some cover 2 looks. Every team does. But cover 2 was never our primary base scheme.

we ran a lot of it on passing downs and that is why you saw Luke making plays on passing downs in the deep third.

He was the perfect LB for the system with his coverage skills.  If we would have been playing cover 3 then the CBs would have had deep outer thirds, with FS in the deep third.  Watch the tape,  our CBs played underneath a lot with safeties behind them, that is why Norman played well at times.  Our safeties were often just responsible for the outer deep thirds, that is why we didn't' put much value on them in the draft or free agency, their responsibility is rather limited in that system.

Every team runs all of the formations, but our defense was built around Tampa 2 and was a huge part of the reason Luke flourished like he did.  

 

 

 

[CanadianCat]

3 hours ago, ericr0319 said:

and if your scouting department tells you Parson's is the 5th best player in this draft?

And that might be the case. You essentially need to have 2 ranking systems.

1 being best overall players

2. Being your draft board. 

 

The draft board doesnt always follow the rankings. It shouldnt... Thats when you get people drafting Roberto Aguayo. 

[Basbear]

4 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I'd love to see the list of elite LB's still in the playoffs. This is like our fanbases fetish with RB's. It's a product of a different time. If you aren't an elite pass rushing LB, it isn't a critical need for a team to win or to have a great defense. 

Luke spoiled ya'll because he was a HOF talent but we aren't going to get another Luke very easily. Furthermore, Luke played in 2019 for one of the worst defenses we have ever fielded. It was a defense that ranked behind the one we just had featuring Tahir Whitehead and Jermaine Carter. Think about that.

Parsons is a luxury pick and we aren't in luxury pick mode.

One thing that got lost in the Herniay sauce, He never adapted to position value. Its important, I believe for certain Samir Suleiman once he came over form Pittsburg, was like "This is wrong". Made CMC the richest RB by far, even with other big names signing after he did. Look Mike Davis played great, still he claimed him and was ready to pay him 3 million for 1 carry/2 Biltz pickup per game. Its not the right path, but here we are. MLB in the top 8, is not smart football. Especially when this draft has 4 QBs, 1 LT, 2 WRs, 2 CBs, 2 DEs that grade just as well.  

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

we ran a lot of it on passing downs and that is why you saw Luke making plays on passing downs in the deep third.

He was the perfect LB for the system with his coverage skills.  If we would have been playing cover 3 then the CBs would have had deep outer thirds, with FS in the deep third.  Watch the tape,  our CBs played underneath a lot with safeties behind them, that is why Norman played well at times.  Our safeties were often just responsible for the outer deep thirds, that is why we didn't' put much value on them in the draft or free agency, their responsibility is rather limited in that system.

Every team runs all of the formations, but our defense was built around Tampa 2 and was a huge part of the reason Luke flourished like he did.  

 

 

 

LOL! No. Our CBs played very little underneath because we were primarily a cover 3 team.

[Zod]

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Please no. The Panthers have historically invested VERY heavily at MLB and we have an overall losing record to show for it. 

I was gonna post that the Panthers have a long and proud history at MLB but then this post made me rethink how much good it did us. 

[ncsfinest21]

If we somehow get Watson, Id take parsons but I bet we would have to trade that pick for him.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, ncsfinest21 said:

If we somehow get Watson, Id take parsons but I bet we would have to trade that pick for him.

Yeah, I see no scenarios where we trade for Watson and retain #8. But yeah, if you land Watson and have #8 and a good option at LT or CB wasn't there then I'd consider Parsons if I couldn't trade down.

[ncsfinest21]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I see no scenarios where we trade for Watson and retain #8. But yeah, if you land Watson and have #8 and a good option at LT or CB wasn't there then I'd consider Parsons if I couldn't trade down.

The only way I see is maybe 2022 1st and maybe 2nd. If they get rid of Hopkins like they did, we may be able to pull off something

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by ncsfinest21

[Jay Roosevelt]

Parsons strikes me as another Reuben Foster; not interested.

[AU-panther]

15 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

LOL! No. Our CBs played very little underneath because we were primarily a cover 3 team.

go watch old coaches' film, our CBs often had safeties behind them.

cover 2 - safeties split deep in halves

Tampa 2 - basically same as cover 2 but MLB takes deep middle, creating a cover 3 look

cover 3 - CBs take deep outer thirds with FS taking middle deep zone

Like you said we ran all of it but there were a lot of Tampa 2 looks on passing downs.  A lot of those plays where Luke was covering a TE on a seam that was Tampa 2.

 

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

go watch old coaches' film, our CBs often had safeties behind them.

cover 2 - safeties split deep in halves

Tampa 2 - basically same as cover 2 but MLB takes deep middle, creating a cover 3 look

cover 3 - CBs take deep outer thirds with FS taking middle deep zone

Like you said we ran all of it but there were a lot of Tampa 2 looks on passing downs.  A lot of those plays where Luke was covering a TE on a seam that was Tampa 2.

 

 

 

Sorry man, you're just not right. Most of those times when we had safeties behind the CBs were were actually playing man. We usually went with a two look when we played man though we did do some man coverage with a single high safety. Usually when Luke was covering down the seam it was because he was playing man. We did run SOME Tampa 2 looks, but it was far from our norm.