Some good roster analysis from Gantt

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, Diehardpanth02 said:

Best point of view I've seen in regards to this. They're building a football team, and rebuilding a franchise from the ground up essentially. They mortgaged their future on surrounding the QB position with talent. So that then they can cycle through the QB carousel until they find their guy. Is Sam it? No one knows. But worst case scenario, if he doesn't pan out we've built a stable roster to draft or sign the next guy.

 

Sam should be given the benefit of the doubt for 2 years tops. If he isn't making improvements then, as Jay-Z said we "on to the next one".

I guess the question is....how do most teams successfully find their guy? 

[Moo Daeng]

3 minutes ago, Diehardpanth02 said:

Best point of view I've seen in regards to this. They're building a football team, and rebuilding a franchise from the ground up essentially. They mortgaged their future on surrounding the QB position with talent. So that then they can cycle through the QB carousel until they find their guy. Is Sam it? No one knows. But worst case scenario, if he doesn't pan out we've built a stable roster to draft or sign the next guy.

 

Sam should be given the benefit of the doubt for 2 years tops. If he isn't making improvements then, as Jay-Z said we "on to the next one".

Unfortunately there was a strong mantra here that basically said don't even think about other positions until you have your franchise QB. Super simple-minded linear approach that would doom any team

[ForJimmy]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oh, the irony here...

And yeah, as far as Darnold. I am neutral. I have no idea whether he's going to succeed or not. I just hope he does.

As far as emotion, I think what's got you all wound up isn't just that they didn't pick the guy you wanted. What seems to be equally pissing you off is that prior to the draft, you committed heavily to this idea that the team only saw Darnold as an insurance policy.

I told you at the time there was plenty of evidence to the contrary, but you pretty much talked yourself into that belief so much so that you kept asking why other people couldn't see how obvious it was.

Pretty obvious now that you were very, very wrong.

Big deal. It happens. Every one of us gets something wrong on an annual basis.

All you're doing by continuously throwing a fit over it is making yourself look bad.

And if you doubt me on that, I'd suggest you take note that I'm not the only person calling you out on this.

You also said we couldn’t draft a QB without a LT. Have been countered with the Chargers and Herbert, said can’t have two rookies which again countered with Cousins and RG3. We didn’t get a LT at 8 like you wanted, obviously our staff sees that differently than you. My favorite part is how you claim smokescreens aren’t common with sources line up with you, but when they don’t it’s just a smokescreen. 
 

We all have opinions on how this team should be ran and not one of us (not even Verge) is going to be right all the time or line up with our staff’s views. He has every right to be skeptical of Darnold (he was with Teddy too) and question our staff’s ability to evaluate QBs. They are 0-1 eating $40 million from their Teddy mistake so far.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I guess the question is....how do most teams successfully find their guy? 

There's not just a single answer to that.

[Moo Daeng]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

I guess the question is....how do most teams successfully find their guy? 

Scouting leading to draft selection, trade or signing a FA. Repeat

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

You also said we couldn’t draft a QB without a LT. Have been countered with the Chargers and Herbert, said can’t have two rookies which again countered with Cousins and RG3. We didn’t get a LT at 8 like you wanted, obviously our staff sees that differently than you. My favorite part is how you claim smokescreens aren’t common with sources line up with you, but when they don’t it’s just a smokescreen. 

We all have opinions on how this team should be ran and not one of us (not even Verge) is going to be right all the time or line up with our staff’s views. He has every right to be skeptical of Darnold (he was with Teddy too) and question our staff’s ability to evaluate QBs. They are 0-1 eating $40 million from their Teddy mistake so far.

Again, it's not that smokescreens don't happen. It's just that fans see them everywhere, including a lot of places where they're not.

And technically, we drafted a left tackle. We just didn't get the guy I really wanted, or do it in the round I would have preferred. C'est la vie. I'll still hope for the best like I always do.

And yes, everyone has a right to their opinion, just like everyone else has a right to an opinion about those opinions. For example, "Darnold might not be good"? Valid. "We've mortgaged the future for Darnold" though? Goofy.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's not just a single answer to that.

Well, I tired to word it carefully.  How do most teams find their guy.  Multiple answers can work.

To me, most have successfully found their QB via the draft and acquiring established QBs that have proven they can play at a certain high level.  

I don't think many found it going the Panthers current route under Rhule.  But anything can happen in sports.  I admit there is intrigue about going the Darnold route and kicking those tires.  Much more so than Teddy. 

The model of building a team first and then drafting a QB has it's flaws too.  By the team your drafted QB is up and ready to win....the team you built likely starts to fade. 

[ForJimmy]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Again, it's not that smokescreens don't happen. It's just that fans see them everywhere, including a lot of places where they're not.

And technically, we drafted left tackle. We just didn't get the guy I really wanted, or do it in the round I really wanted. C'est la vie. I'll still hope for the best like I always do.

And yes, everyone has a right to their opinion, just like everyone else has a right to an opinion about those opinions. For example, "Darnold might not be good"? Valid. "We've mortgaged the future" though? Goofy.

So when me and others says we can address LT later in the draft with a deep class and you insisted on one of the elite ones at 8....  Like you said it’s ok to be wrong.

Hell I thought Herbert would be a bust, and Teddy would be good for us.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Well, I tired to word it carefully.  How do most teams find their guy.  Multiple answers can work.

To me, most have successfully found their QB via the draft and acquiring established QBs that have proven they can play at a high certain level.  

I don't think many found it going the Panthers current route under Rhule.  But anything can happen in sports.  I admit their is intrigue about going the Darnold route.  Much more so than Teddy. 

To tell the truth, I'd say the most correct answer is by being good at personnel evaluation.

Sometimes that's pro personnel via free agency or trade. Other times, it's college prospects via draft evaluation.

Bottom Line: If you don't know what you're doing, the method doesn't really matter.

[rayzor]

15 minutes ago, Diehardpanth02 said:

Best point of view I've seen in regards to this. They're building a football team, and rebuilding a franchise from the ground up essentially. They mortgaged their future on surrounding the QB position with talent. So that then they can cycle through the QB carousel until they find their guy. Is Sam it? No one knows. But worst case scenario, if he doesn't pan out we've built a stable roster to draft or sign the next guy.

 

Sam should be given the benefit of the doubt for 2 years tops. If he isn't making improvements then, as Jay-Z said we "on to the next one".

Very balanced and reasonable take on this.

We've got a pretty cheap option for a franchise QB.

We're rebuilding the team for 'a' franchise QB. If it's not Darnold, then we'll be in better position for the next try.

With Darnold, we're getting a still very young QB that we don't have to commit the next 4 years to like we would if we had drafted him in the first round.

Plus we got the legit haul we got in the draft. 

I think we are set up nicely for the future either way.

[LinvilleGorge]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's not at all difficult to deny something when it isn't true.

I'd add that I'm pretty sure anybody reading your back and forth with me right now wouldn't be labeling me as the emotional one who's "lashing out' (hell, just look back in this thread).

Yes, you were right about Bridgewater. Congratulations. Doesn't guarantee that you're right about Darnold. You were already wrong about how the team saw him. Here's hoping you're also wrong about the rest.

Was I? Tepper wanted him. That's what I said. What I was wrong about was that Tepper would give the staff the nudge they needed to get them over the hump to make the pick. Time will tell whether or not that was the right call.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

So when me and others says we can address LT later in the draft with a deep class and you insisted on one of the elite ones at 8....  Like you said it’s ok to be wrong.

Hell I thought Herbert would be a bust, and Teddy would be good for us.

I don't think anybody would call Christensen "elite". Hell, from what I've read, a lot of analysts wouldn't call anybody other than Sewell "elite"

Thing is though, we didn't pass on Sewell. He just didn't make it to our pick. You can say we could have traded up, but I think it's unlikely we were gonna do that for anybody.

So now that it's over, I can sit here and scream and cry and whine and b-tch and talk down everybody in the Panthers organization, or I can just say "oh well" and hope for the best.

I prefer Option B.

[LinvilleGorge]

22 minutes ago, Diehardpanth02 said:

Best point of view I've seen in regards to this. They're building a football team, and rebuilding a franchise from the ground up essentially. They mortgaged their future on surrounding the QB position with talent. So that then they can cycle through the QB carousel until they find their guy. Is Sam it? No one knows. But worst case scenario, if he doesn't pan out we've built a stable roster to draft or sign the next guy.

 

Sam should be given the benefit of the doubt for 2 years tops. If he isn't making improvements then, as Jay-Z said we "on to the next one".

If we're still flailing after two years we might be "on to the next one" with the staff too.

Moving on from Teddy quickly gives me hope that this staff can recognize their mistakes and move past them quickly, but you can only swing and miss at QB while putting up bad records for so long before you're deemed the problem.

[SCO96]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

They also played with a poo ton of Hall of Famers on the field with them

QB's get too much credit when teams win and too much blame win they lose. In football, no player can do it alone, including the QB. Most of the great QB's played with Hall of Fame talent, or at minimum well constructed teams with above average/Pro bowl players on both sides of the ball. That's why Aaron Rodgers can't get back to a Super Bowl now. He's physically more talented overall than Bradshaw or Aikman, but his teams don't have enough depth to win the big game. 

Bradshaw and Aikman were both blessed by having several years to mature while the coaches and front offices shrewdly constructed their teams via the draft.