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Ye Evolution of the OL has Begunst


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7 minutes ago, Snake said:

Morons contract will be super complex and I really think why he was tagged was because we didn't want Hurney screwing it up.

I haven't thought about this angle--I think you're exactly right.

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1 hour ago, Basbear said:

 

Bro I used 15 versions of "should", Im out the farthest out on the branch without fully putting on the homer glasses. I too did not care for Elf or Erving, both have put out AWFUL tape for the last three years(same for ginger cringer...). So I am in wait see mode, cause my current report would not be a nice one. My 4 out of 5 statement did not include either Elf or Erving(not for LT) btw, I have both on the bench for 2021..... You have every right to be skeptical, but I can not give the hope stamp like last year. My hope is Rhule and Pat can pull off a miracle or two.... Live game snaps in preseason games, before I make a prediction. Plus fyi dont put too much stock into Brown looking bad in 1 on 1 drills, a OG always has someone to their right and left.....those drills always make C/OGs look bad. OL play as 1, not 1 vs 1 too.  

I can give you some hope for Brown @stbugs included. If you havnt seen Brown pulling or showing max effort check this out- 

https://twitter.com/colecubelic/status/1060295663194390528

 

Could be Im high on hopium, but I believe both Moore and Brown will be focused on proving the doubters wrong. My main hopes for each is in 2022 tho, but that happen sooner. 

 

Yeah, I honestly was hoping for the first time in forever that we were going to take the OL seriously and make some needed moves. Needless to say, I was disappointed in what we ended up doing and the way we ended up doing it. 

I just hope these FO guys prove to be geniuses and make our skepticism look completely foolish. I'd rather look foolish and enjoy success than be right and watch the team look like dogshit.

 

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45 minutes ago, Panthers Rhule said:

Fair enough. But that's a very general statement without much in the way of supporting arguments. So, please educate us all by explaining exactly who was on our OL last season that isn't on the roster this season and was so good that the possibility that any of these new additions couldn't possibly match their level of play is "dumb homerism" and why. I'm more than willing to consider your point of view if you can support it with an explanation. 

The only non-scrub loss was Okung and he wasn't healthy enough to move the bar this season even if we did bring him back(which we rightly didn't). The point being that the hope was that we upgraded over the guys we played(Miller, Scott, Reed, Schofield, Daley, Little, etc). 

I don't expect that Erving/Elflein are going to be much of an upgrade, nor does really their performances up to this point in the NFL indicate that(similar to last year's non-Okung signings). Everything about them indicates they are journeyman depth guys and not NFL starters(hence why they have been jettisoned by multiple teams). 

The draft isn't that much different. We took a shaky but athletic OT that likely isn't capable of being a starter at LT. Then we took fliers on couple of 6th round or lower OG's. In what was considered to be a very strong IOL class, that was extremely disappointing.

Overall, I suspect we are going to net mainly depth guys or players that aren't likely to be on the roster more than a season or two. I am fine with improving the depth on the OL and the versatility of the FA's is excellent for that purpose. However, I am not seeing that either OG guard spot is improved nor certainly the situation at LT resolved.

I get putting on the fan shades and wishing for the best. I also want all these moves to work out. But I cannot simultaneously turn off my brain and ignore the obvious flaws in what appears to be the 2021 Panthers OL strategy. 

Ultimately, I don't think the Panthers FO and coaching staff probably share my view of the importance of having a good(or great) offensive line.

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On 5/8/2021 at 11:48 AM, Moo Daeng said:

I don't get the impression Moton really wants to be here. 

Where do you get that impression? I haven't seen anything.

The only thing Moton wants is for the Panthers to 

Show Me The Money GIF

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On 5/8/2021 at 11:03 AM, MHS831 said:

I am scared they will.  He want elite LT money.  And if so, they let him walk.  I always estimate on the high side, however, so maybe his demands are just a negotiation tactic. Nobody should negotiate in 2020-21 if they could get tagged.

I'd want to see him at LT before we talk about paying LT money. Moton is really good, the best we've got, but if there were plans to move him to LT from RT, they'd have really tried it last season for a few games. 

I think we'll see him offered $12-14 million which would put him in top three salaries for RTs in the NFL and they'll let him test the markets at left tackle. Sadly, that's going to mean he's going to walk. That might not be the worst thing to happen to us, though.

Right tackles are easier to come by than LTs, we all know that. We can, if we have to, replace him in the draft or develop one from the guys we've got on team at the moment. One of those modest LT prospects could be a solid RT for a whole lot less money. And while Moton looks great on our team, we'd have to be major homers to not recognize a bit of bias created by the fact that the other guys around him just haven't been all that good. Like Andrew Norwell a couple of years back, he looked like a beast bookended by a couple of Kalils, but he was just meh when he got the big bucks to go somewhere else. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I'd want to see him at LT before we talk about paying LT money. Moton is really good, the best we've got, but if there were plans to move him to LT from RT, they'd have really tried it last season for a few games. 

I think we'll see him offered $12-14 million which would put him in top three salaries for RTs in the NFL and they'll let him test the markets at left tackle. Sadly, that's going to mean he's going to walk. That might not be the worst thing to happen to us, though.

Right tackles are easier to come by than LTs, we all know that. We can, if we have to, replace him in the draft or develop one from the guys we've got on team at the moment. One of those modest LT prospects could be a solid RT for a whole lot less money. And while Moton looks great on our team, we'd have to be major homers to not recognize a bit of bias created by the fact that the other guys around him just haven't been all that good. Like Andrew Norwell a couple of years back, he looked like a beast bookended by a couple of Kalils, but he was just meh when he got the big bucks to go somewhere else. 

 

Probably just negotiating.  He signed the tag quickly, so he wanted to kick the can into this year for a long term contract--better money--not much of a downside for Moton--and maybe figured Marty would overpay to save his job as he has done in the past--we shall see.

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15 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

I think day 1 line will be 

LT- Scott

LG- Brady C 

C- Paradis

RG- Miller 

RT- Moton.  
 

Man we really need Brady to work out at LT.  But after recent experiences I will hold my breath.   

I have been watching Elflien in vidoes about Darnold and I like him.   I think LT is wide open--the rest is fairly set--but would it not be sweet to see Brown take RG?  I think they will start Irving and give the job to Christensen a few games into to season--but you are on to something about his LG potential.  He could be a stud there.

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O-line philosophy:

If you find a good tackle pay him, just pay him.  In the meantime every other year or so draft a good tackle prospect in an early round.  This way you are only paying big money to one at a time.  

Your interior spots keep filled with mid to late round draft picks, or vets who are cap casualties.  Every year there seems to be some good, vet guards who get cut by their current teams.

Fact is you can't afford to pay all 5 spots.  

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2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I have been watching Elflien in vidoes about Darnold and I like him.   I think LT is wide open--the rest is fairly set--but would it not be sweet to see Brown take RG?  I think they will start Irving and give the job to Christensen a few games into to season--but you are on to something about his LG potential.  He could be a stud there.

I hope they see something in Elflien or Erving.  We really need them to come through.  I don’t want to walk out week one with all those rookies even though I am high on them.  

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8 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

I hope they see something in Elflien or Erving.  We really need them to come through.  I don’t want to walk out week one with all those rookies even though I am high on them.  

I think Pat Elflein is likely a JAG.   Not meant in a bad way.   Just an average OL.   Which is fine.  His position versatility is a plus.  

Erving I'm not as confident in.   I think he could start at LT because of the off-season promise when he was signed and then be benched because of poor play after 3 games.  

One rookie on the OL is fine.   That's probably due to merit.   Two rookies starting means either they are playing incredibly well or there's been a massive breakdown in the OL and we're just throwing bodies at it in hopes it will get fixed.  

 

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