Sam Darnold's "Style of Ball"

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, SBBlue said:

I know this isn't the prevailing wisdom, but I think Teddy was always meant to be interim QB.

I think they thought the rebuild was going to take 3-4 years, we'd do worse than under RR, like 2-14 and Teddy would cushion the next QB from being compared to Cam. They gave him the 3 year because that is what it took to get him, the rebuild will take that long, and they  could always trade him for something and eat part of it if they had to.  (which is what they did)

After we performed better than expected, especially with some very good teams, Teddy fell apart in the back of the season and PJ came in and won, and they thought, you know what...we could contend now...lets find our QB.  Blah blah blah...Stafford .... Watson ...     How that leads you to even look at Darnold is anybody's guess because I never would thought to look there. 

They looked there because both Rhule and Fitterer were familiar with him. Rhule met him when he interviewed for the Jets job and Fitterer had scouted him for Seattle.

Rhule also mentioned that during a film session with the defensive coaches they were watching the Jets and Phil Snow was impressed by Darnold's performance. This was one of the things that spurred them to look in his direction and contact the Jets in the first place. And ultimately, they liked him enough to make him a Panther.

I know some here have a narrative that Darnold was just the best they could do or was insurance just in case they couldn't get someone like Fields (CRA repeatedly assured me of this pre-draft) but obviously that wasn't true. Yet some still seem to think that just because they don't believe he's good, the Panthers can't possibly think that.

Except they do. Passing on Fields cemented it.

Now, are they right about him? That I don't know.

But arguing that the Panthers simply must think less of him because "there's no way they could disagree with me" is not only just plain dumb, but also ignores the facts in favor of an imaginary narrative.

Bottom Line: If anyone wants to argue that they don't think Darnold can be the guy, that's a valid opinion.

Trying to argue that the Panthers don't believe he can be the guy is delusional.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[Moo Daeng]

1 hour ago, SBBlue said:

I know this isn't the prevailing wisdom, but I think Teddy was always meant to be interim QB.

I think they thought the rebuild was going to take 3-4 years, we'd do worse than under RR, like 2-14 and Teddy would cushion the next QB from being compared to Cam. They gave him the 3 year because that is what it took to get him, the rebuild will take that long, and they  could always trade him for something and eat part of it if they had to.  (which is what they did)

After we performed better than expected, especially with some very good teams, Teddy fell apart in the back of the season and PJ came in and won, and they thought, you know what...we could contend now...lets find our QB.  Blah blah blah...Stafford .... Watson ...     How that leads you to even look at Darnold is anybody's guess because I never would thought to look there. 

Being as you aren't a coach, scout, director of any type of personnel, gm or any one of significance in the situation where you would have looked is irrelevant. 

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

They looked there because both Rhule and Fitterer were familiar with him. Rhule met him when he interviewed for the Jets job and Fitterer had scouted him for Seattle.

Rhule also mentioned that during a film session with the defensive coaches they were watching the Jets and Phil Snow was impressed by Darnold's performance. This was one of the things that spurred them to look in his direction and contact the Jets in the first place. And ultimately, they liked him enough to make him a Panther.

I know some here have a narrative that Darnold was just the best they could do or was insurance just in case they couldn't get someone like Fields (CRA repeatedly assured me of this pre-draft) but obviously that wasn't true. Yet some still seem to think that just because they don't believe he's good, the Panthers can't possibly think that.

Except they do. Passing on Fields cemented it.

Now, are they right about him? That I don't know.

But arguing that the Panthers simply must think less of him because "there's no way they could disagree with me" is not only just plain dumb, but also ignores the facts in favor of an imaginary narrative.

Bottom Line: If anyone wants to argue that they don't think Darnold can be the guy, that's a valid opinion.

Trying to argue that the Panthers don't believe he can be the guy is delusional.

Are you really pretending like we didn't strike out on every other pitch before settling on Darnold? We were all over the Watson trade talks. We made a serious offer for Stafford. We had discussions with Miami about #3 overall before it became obvious the Jets were taking Wilson #2. Darnold was literally the best option available after all of that. The only thing you said that makes any sense is that the Panthers preferred trading for Darnold over drafting Justin Fields and I'm not 100% sold that the Panthers would've made that trade had they known Fields would be there at #8. I'm just hoping that they actually did prefer Darnold and didn't let a sunk cost alter their draft board.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Are you really pretending like we didn't strike out on every other pitch before settling on Darnold? We were all over the Watson trade talks. We made a serious offer for Stafford. We had discussions with Miami about #3 overall before it became obvious the Jets were taking Wilson #2. Darnold was literally the best option available after all of that. The only thing you said that makes any sense is that the Panthers preferred trading for Darnold over drafting Justin Fields and I'm not 100% sold that the Panthers would've made that trade had they known Fields would be there at #8. I'm just hoping that they actually did prefer Darnold and didn't let a sunk cost alter their draft board.

I've read the backstory. Have you?

For one, pretty much all of the Watson stuff was outside speculation and crazy cloak and dagger theories about Tepper. The actual stories that have been told say that we were interested but since the Texans said they weren't trading him, it didn't go any further.

The initial contact with the Jets about Darnold came way back in February right after the Stafford deal failed, and might have been finalized sooner except the Jets didn't want to do anything until they'd had a chance to go through the full scouting cycle. Even so, while exploring other options (as they should) the team never backed off of Darnold and ultimately landed him.

I get that this doesn't fit your narrative, but those are the actual reports. And I'm more inclined to believe people who have actual involvement and connections rather than just a fan with theories.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[LinvilleGorge]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I've read the backstory. Have you?

For one, pretty much all of the Watson stuff was outside speculation and crazy cloak and dagger theories about Tepper. The actual stories that have been told say that we were interested but since the Texans said they weren't trading him, it didn't go any further.

The initial contact with the Jets about Darnold came way back in February right after the Stafford deal failed, and might have been finalized sooner except the Jets didn't want to do anything until they'd had a chance to go through the full scouting cycle. Even so, while exploring other options (as they should) the team never backed off of Darnold and ultimately landed him.

I get that this doesn't fit your narrative, but those are the actual reports. And I'm more inclined to believe people who have actual involvement and connections rather than just a fan with theories.

LOL @ "fit the narrative". The point is that Darnold was there for the taking all along. We pursued other options because we thought they were better options. This is isn't hard. The mental gymanstics you're going through to convince yourself we wanted Darnold all along is hilarious.

[Moo Daeng]

We attempted to traid for Stafford and then a bunch of rumors about a guy who was never actually on the trade market. Rumors that don't jive with anything that we did later in terms of valuing draft picks. 

Clearly spin on that take.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

LOL @ "fit the narrative". The point is that Darnold was there for the taking all along. We pursued other options because we thought they were better options. This is isn't hard. The mental gymanstics you're going through to convince yourself we wanted Darnold all along is hilarious.

So you think the Jets asking to put off the discussion because they wanted to finish their scouting process didn't really happen?

Yeah, sure...

I mean, it was reported way back in March that the Jets were telling teams that very thing but of you say it didn't happen, I'll take your word for it.

Gonna guess that whole discussion about Darnold in the Panthers video was staged too. Am I right?

Edited May 28, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

So you think the Jets asking to put off the discussion because they wanted to finish their scouting process didn't really happen?

Yeah, sure...

I mean, it was reported way back in March that the Jets were telling teams that very thing but of you say it didn't happen, I'll take your word for it.

Gonna guess that whole discussion about Darnold in the Panthers video was staged too. Am I right?

No, I don't doubt that the Jets told teams that they were going to finish evaluations. I do highly doubt that anyone in the NFL actually thought they'd stick with Darnold though sitting at #2 with this incoming QB class. The league expectation was almost certainly always that Darnold would be available. Once he became available, the list of suitors was... well, us.

We pursued other options because they were much better. Darnold was always a fallback plan. The way the cards were dealt, we needed the fallback plan.

My only question is whether or not we panicked. Would we have drafted Fields had we not made that trade? I have a hunch we would've, but it's only that.

[SBBlue]

1 hour ago, SBBlue said:

Hey you edited but the post doesn't note that.  Moderator perk I guess.  Do you not have the time limit either?

Can you edit my quote of your post?

So you can.  What voodoo magic is this?

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No, I don't doubt that the Jets told teams that they were going to finish evaluations. I do highly doubt that anyone in the NFL actually thought they'd stick with Darnold though sitting at #2 with this incoming QB class. The league expectation was almost certainly always that Darnold would be available. Once he became available, the list of suitors was... well, us.

We pursued other options because they were much better. Darnold was always a fallback plan. The way the cards were dealt, we needed the fallback plan.

My only question is whether or not we panicked. Would we have drafted Fields had we not made that trade? I have a hunch we would've, but it's only that.

This is the same stuff you told me to explain why we weren't picking up his option yet and to assure me we were taking Fields.

How'd that pan out?

Basically, you're desperately trying to spin the story in such a way that the Panthers agree with you about Darnold based on "hunches" and theories when all the actual evidence says they don't.

Sorry, but I can't take your hunches as seriously as I can actual reports.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is the same stuff you told me to explain why we weren't picking up his option yet and to assure me we were taking Fields.

How'd that pan out?

Basically, you're desperately trying to spin the story in such a way that the Panthers agree with you about Darnold based on "hunches" and theories when all the actual evidence says they don't.

Sorry, but I can't take your hunches as seriously as I can actual reports.

I thought we'd take Fields. Some in the organization wanted to. The other side won. That's how it goes.

There's desperate spin going on here alright...

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

So you can.  What voodoo magic is this?

I added the edit to the post he quoted.  Mods somehow how are the only ones who currently can edit their own post.  I've always done it to my post.  Posters could in the past.  Instead of adding a new post I'll go back and finish a thought.  Just an old habit. 

[ForJimmy]

Darnold was definitely not our first or second choice. Fitts being in on every deal is why we were talking to the Jets early. (Which we thought a second was too much for him originally) I’m sure he has spoke with half of the teams about potential trade targets. I’m feeling a little optimistic about Darnold, but I’m not delusional in thinking we wanted him first the whole time. 

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is the same stuff you told me to explain why we weren't picking up his option yet and to assure me we were taking Fields.

How'd that pan out?

Basically, you're desperately trying to spin the story in such a way that the Panthers agree with you about Darnold based on "hunches" and theories when all the actual evidence says they don't.

Sorry, but I can't take your hunches as seriously as I can actual reports.

actual reports are often just team pr and propaganda though. 

kinda like their draft confidential.  It is super edited to present like a master plan that all worked to perfection.  It leaves out all the other discussions.  Guys they wanted instead of who they got etc.  Routine disagreement.  All the stuff they wouldn't want you to hear.