CMC being CMC

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

if it's a 6 year process and we aren't drafting a QB to groom.....we really shouldn't have CMC.   It makes him a wasted resource.  He is a win now player with a limited shelf life.  

so I would say there are mixed signals.  And it doesn't take 6 years IMO to build a winner in today's NFL.  

Have you seen our dead cap hit?  Our cap was a mess when this new staff took over. It’s not a one or two year process to repair that, lose our core players, and address all of our roster weaknesses. We didn’t feel there was a QB worth drafting in this class at 8 so we used less resources and gambled on another young QB to groom (Darnold). Like it or not that’s the decision we made. People are getting confused about how this works. Most teams aren’t going to ditch every single player of value to rebuild a roster. The older players like Olsen are given the option to leave and compete. Players that have bad contracts like KK are cut.  Young playmakers like CMC are built around and developed with the roster. It’s a business and you still have to sell your product/tickets. Right now CMC, Moton, and DJ Moore are the foundation for the offense. 

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Have you seen our dead cap hit?  Our cap was a mess when this new staff took over. It’s not a one or two year process to repair that, lose our core players, and address all of our roster weaknesses. We didn’t feel there was a QB worth drafting in this class at 8 so we used less resources and gambled on another young QB to groom (Darnold). Like it or not that’s the decision we made. People are getting confused about how this works. Most teams aren’t going to ditch every single player of value to rebuild a roster. The older players like Olsen are given the option to leave and compete. Players that have bad contracts like KK are cut.  Young playmakers like CMC are built around and developed with the roster. It’s a business and you still have to sell your product/tickets. Right now CMC, Moton, and DJ Moore are the foundation for the offense. 

RBs are weird with me.   Always have been. 

CMC is kids favorite player.  CMC is awesome.  But he is a win now asset.   So Rhule better get busy for him to have any real worth to us. 

 

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

RBs are weird with me.   Always have been. 

CMC is kids favorite player.  CMC is awesome.  But he is a win now asset.   So Rhule better get busy for him to have any real worth to us. 

 

I get it, but he is still a bit of an unknown because of how he plays the game. Almost just as much WR as RB. Will that increase his shelf life? Who knows? Also he just turned 25 last month (and barely played last year) with us going into year two of the “rebuild”. So in year 4-5 he will be 27/28 when we should be in the playoffs making a push (in theory). Unless a team is giving up a poo ton for him I don’t see a reason to trade him…

[frankw]

Just now, CRA said:

RBs are weird with me.   Always have been. 

CMC is kids favorite player.  CMC is awesome.  But he is a win now asset.   So Rhule better get busy for him to have any real worth to us. 

The dilemma is more reps mean higher risk of injury. 22 already has high mileage from college and he has been atop the league in touches. Backs like Henry and Lynch who can keep on chugging along are rare over the years and even they eventually hit a wall. Folks here are too attached to want to see the reality of the situation. We had two top backs in the league under contract years ago and where did that take us? Carolina continually has to learn the same lessons the hard way.

[SBBlue]

49 minutes ago, CRA said:

To some extent.   Absolutely.  The professionals confirm that too. 

No.  Pros don't use draft position as the only measure...its just simpleminded.

I tried to get the thread away from same old "we don't invest enough in the oline"  whine.  People always whine but then offer nothing other than, more money or higher picks. 

When we spend more money or higher picks they complain how it wasn't the right ones.

And when given the chance to say what should have been done, just simpleminded responses.

 

[CRA]

15 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I get it, but he is still a bit of an unknown because of how he plays the game. Almost just as much WR as RB. Will that increase his shelf life? Who knows? Also he just turned 25 last month (and barely played last year) with us going into year two of the “rebuild”. So in year 4-5 he will be 27/28 when we should be in the playoffs making a push (in theory). Unless a team is giving up a poo ton for him I don’t see a reason to trade him…

IMO, he currently is not on a great schedule/pace to have a long career. 

He lead the league in touches in 2019.  And just happened to struggle to stay healthy the next year.   And Rhule and Brady had him getting the same rate of touches when he was on the field in 2020.  

we need to not lean on him so hard as we build.  I mean, if we aren't in win now mode and that is 4 years down the road......we need to dial it way back. 

[SBBlue]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Folks here are too attached to want to see the reality of the situation.

You're talking about yourself right?

Quote

 Carolina continually has to learn the same lessons the hard way.

If only we had someone to teach us, like you Frank.  Please share you're brilliant insights.  

After we let CMC go,  should we have taken one in the draft?

[frankw]

Just now, SBBlue said:

No.  Pros don't use draft position as the only measure...its just simpleminded.

I tried to get the thread away from same old "we don't invest enough in the oline"  whine.  People always whine but then offer nothing other than, more money or higher picks. 

When we spend more money or higher picks they complain how it wasn't the right ones.

And when given the chance to say what should have been done, just simpleminded responses.

You don't seek real unbiased discussion you just want others to have the same viewpoint and if they don't you flail and play the victim and call people trolls despite engaging in the same behaviors and namecalling. You are trolling too.

4 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

You're talking about yourself right?

If only we had someone to teach us, like you Frank.  Please share you're brilliant insights.  

After we let CMC go,  should we have taken one in the draft?

Save yourself a hundred million dollars in two devalued positions. Acquire a real left tackle by any means neccessary and draft a running back like other teams do or pick one up on a reasonable contract in free agency like we did with Mike Davis or like Tampa Bay did last year. As for Shaq can you say our defense is night and day different without him? You can look to the draft or you can seek a temporary solution in free agency. Our bread and butter is still in the defensive line and we have a developing secondary. How different would this roster be with that much extra cap space to maneuver with and ensure our offensive line is up to the task to protect our investment at qb? But what's done is done now we have to figure out how to work around 32 million dollars in cap hits next year and other up and coming rookies approaching new contracts that won't come cheap.

[Anybodyhome]

16 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah it’s year 2 of an obvious rebuild…

When you have to insert the word "obvious," it sounds as though you're trying to convince yourself. 

What does a "not so obvious rebuild" look like? How about the "completely stealthy" rebuild?

[SBBlue]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

 But what's done is done now 

Doesn't seem like it with you Frank.  

Every post contains a snide comment,  insult to the team, or bitch about a decision.

[CRA]

35 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

No.  Pros don't use draft position as the only measure...its just simpleminded.

I tried to get the thread away from same old "we don't invest enough in the oline"  whine.  People always whine but then offer nothing other than, more money or higher picks. 

When we spend more money or higher picks they complain how it wasn't the right ones.

And when given the chance to say what should have been done, just simpleminded responses.

 

You skewing that though IMO.  I'm literally talking about investing via the draft.  Rhule has had two.  And yeah, the pros literally assess and sort the talent out.   It's why guys go in the 1st vs 7th vs undrafted.   Drafting Trevor #1 overall is much different investment than taking a QB in round 7.   Trevor is a massive investment.  The 7th rounder is a camp body.   Then there is everything intbeween. 

Now, once that wave of players goes to the NFL and proves what they can do....draft position does go out the window.   They are NFL players.   But Rhule hasn't invested heavily there either.   Those guys get sorted out by the pros largely too.   FA investments aren't all viewed the same either.  Bandaids.  Bodies.  Short term, long term investments. 

I mean, Matt Rhule simply hasn't invested heavily in the OL to date.   I think most would have thought we would have done more given the nature of the OL he inherited (plus the nature of his QB spot). 

 

[ForJimmy]

22 minutes ago, Anybodyhome said:

When you have to insert the word "obvious," it sounds as though you're trying to convince yourself. 

What does a "not so obvious rebuild" look like? How about the "completely stealthy" rebuild?

It’s an obvious rebuild with the owner says it before the season. He told everyone “we are in a building process” to establish sustained success…. His letter to the fans stated “it won’t happen overnight and to be patient” yet people are getting upset at a losing season the very next year. He even hired a coach that specializes in rebuilding programs. A not obvious rebuild would be trading for older vet players and paying a lot of money because we want to win now. 

[iamhubby1]

Sooo...2 years ago Rhule went all D. Now that that same D looks like it just may be getting better. Folks seem to forget that Draft.

 

But...This year we attacked the O in the Draft. Including 2 Olinemen, and another -Moore- who may be our starting C sooner than later. And also grabbed a blocking TE. Yet, some folks are unhappy cuz we didn't do more.

 

Some folks want to discuss this, others just want to burn it down. Which is how it should be. Differences drive discussions. But being civil is what keeps discussions going.

 

Civility is needed for discussions to be effective.

[SBBlue]

32 minutes ago, CRA said:

 I think most would have thought we would have done more given the nature of the OL he inherited (plus the nature of his QB spot). 

 

Really, another replay of the oline discussion.  Really?  I'm not arguing that we couldn't have done more.   Rather than having the same oline conversation one...more...time....  I thought we'd discuss who Frank actually wanted, but no, thats to much and you felt to say that was unceccessary.

 

I think you're missing the bigger picture here.  You have a guy trolling the thread on CMC.  He backpedals into bitching about the oline.  That's all he's done is bitch about the team since he's got here.  He inserts insults about huddlers how we don't see reality.  In.  Every.  Post.

You, as a mod, rush in to argue for higher oline picks.  No wonder the TB is so awesome.

smh

Edited July 9, 2021 by SBBlue