Just Fields looking like hot garbage

[ForJimmy]

5 hours ago, glenwo2 said:

Except his "hard road" is to play and help the Panthers win Football games, not to prove he's better than Justin Fields 

70 yard bombs?

 

^^^ Sam can throw the ball deep, too, you know.  

 

Anyway, I doubt Justin Fields is even a smidgeon of a thought in his mind right now.   It's all the fans here that are in a tizzy.

 

Not sure you're going to get one, OldhamA.

Might as well translate that to :  "Based on my own personal OPINION that has zero facts to back it up, there is a higher chance of a first round QB succeeding than a reclamation project being successful…"

Are you serious? You can literally name plenty of 1st round QBs that have succeeded. Manning (both of them), Big Ben, Rivers, Stafford, Cam, Mayfield, Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, McNabb, Vick, Ryan, Luck, Josh Allen, Murray, and both Herbert and Burrow look decent and I want even go back before Peyton. The ONLY reclamation project that seemed to legitimately work is Tannehill and maybe Gannon, but that could be considered a reach. Sorry I didn’t respond earlier I honestly thought he was joking.

Edited August 15, 2021 by ForJimmy

[frankw]

21 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Are you serious? You can literally name plenty of 1st round QBs that have succeeded. Manning (both of them), Big Ben, Rivers, Stafford, Cam, Mayfield, Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, McNabb, Vick, Ryan, Luck, Josh Allen, Murray, and both Herbert and Burrow look decent and I want even go back before Peyton. The ONLY reclamation project that seemed to legitimately work is Tannehill and maybe Gannon, but that could be considered a reach. Sorry I didn’t respond earlier I honestly thought he was joking.

He followed Sam Darnold here from the Jets. Not surprising he is living in a reality with his own alternative facts and has little real understanding of football history. I have suspicions about why some of these odd new characters are so infatuated with Sam while hating on other young quarterbacks but I will withhold for the time being.

Edited August 15, 2021 by frankw

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

He followed Darnold here from the Jets. Not surprising he is living in a reality with his own alternative facts and has little real understanding of football history. I have suspicions about why some of these odd new characters are so infatuated with Sam while hating on other young quarterbacks but I will withhold for the time being.

Yeah I’m not going to give references on a message board on every post. Most of what I’m posting is my personal opinion based on what I’ve seen as a fan. If I’m directly quoting or referring to something else I’ll post a link. I really don’t have an issue with Darnold (preferred Fields), but he is definitely not untouchable like they want him to be. If he looks great I’ll be excited, if he looks bad I’m going to call it like I see it.

[Proudiddy]

5 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Yes they are.  Darnold has show the same ability and it's been in real NFL action.  I guess he doesn't get the same respect as you give a rookie with ZERO live game reps. 

But the issue with Darnold has been he has also had almost just as many bad games/moments as good ones.

I want to eat crow, because it will mean success for our team, but I just feel like Sam is who he is.  I hope I'm wrong.

[OldhamA]

49 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah I’m not going to give references on a message board on every post. Most of what I’m posting is my personal opinion based on what I’ve seen as a fan. If I’m directly quoting or referring to something else I’ll post a link. I really don’t have an issue with Darnold (preferred Fields), but he is definitely not untouchable like they want him to be. If he looks great I’ll be excited, if he looks bad I’m going to call it like I see it.

That's fine, just don't make definitive statements like "statistically speaking" then.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Catsfan69 said:

I don't know why anyone cares.

He's not a Panther if he plays well he  will be one of a long line of QBs we missed on including Brady and Rogers. 

Brady was a late 6th round pick. EVERYONE missed on Brady. Multiple times. The Pats aren't brilliant for drafting Brady in the 6th. They just took a late round flier on a guy and hit a walk off grand slam. If they'd had ANY hunch that Brady would end up being 10% of what he became they wouldn't have sat on their hands until the 6th round.

[frankw]

6 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

That's fine, just don't make definitive statements like "statistically speaking" then.

If you want to guide the discussion then bring some data yourself. When was the last time a top 3 pick at quarterback who was a failure with his first team went on to become a dominant qb after being traded?

[OldhamA]

10 minutes ago, frankw said:

If you want to guide the discussion then bring some data yourself. When was the last time a top 3 pick at quarterback who was a failure with his first team went on to become a dominant qb after being traded?

Again I'm not the one making definitive statements.

Those are very narrow parameters [top 3, dominant, traded], but you can have Alex Smith and Mike Vick as two examples of QBs taken in the 'Top 3' who were significantly better at their second stop. 

Obviously Ryan Tannehill is the prime example of a 1st round QB reclamation project in recent years and he also had the misfortune of being coached by Gase. 

I would not be at all surprised if Payton turns Winston into a thorn in our side. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

30 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

But the issue with Darnold has been he has also had almost just as many bad games/moments as good ones.

I want to eat crow, because it will mean success for our team, but I just feel like Sam is who he is.  I hope I'm wrong.

Well I hope your wrong too.  I guess I am a bit more optimistic than you.  But, I also understand your pessimism because retread QBs don't normally turn into Pro Bowlers when they move.

Let's hope Darnold is the exception to the rule. 

[ForJimmy]

16 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

That's fine, just don't make definitive statements like "statistically speaking" then.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/sport/nfl-draft-2021-first-round-quarterbacks-how-likely-succeed-stats-972664/amp
 

He is giving 1st QBs a 45% bust rate (since 2000). 55% become capable starters. Compare that to Tannehill vs every other bust trade/signing since 2000 and you get a much lower number. It’s something pretty obvious that shouldn’t have to be researched. QBs busting and becoming solid starters on other teams are pretty rare. Tannehill is pretty much the only recent situation that has happened (good news and Darnold and he share the same staff when they were struggling) Hopefully it will happen with Darnold since he is so young and the Jets were a complete shitshow. 

[frankw]

1 minute ago, OldhamA said:

Again I'm not the one making definitive statements.

Those are very narrow parameters [top 3, dominant, traded], but you can have Alex Smith and Mike Vick as two examples of QBs taken in the 'Top 3' who were significantly better at their second stop. 

Obviously Ryan Tannehill is the prime example of a 1st round QB reclamation project in recent years and he also had the misfortune of being coached by Gase. 

I would not be at all surprised if Payton turns Winston into a thorn in our side. 

Well of course none of us here can make truly definitive statements unless we have a time machine or a crystal ball handy. Mike Vick only reached 60-62% completion as a passer twice in his career though and one of those was in his final year. Alex Smith was pretty good for a time but never seemed to be able to get over the hump. Not all of that is on him mind you but still his career is what it is. It remains to be seen if the same will apply to Tannehill he has some damn good talent around him there is no reason they can't make a run. For the time being I would be fine with an Alex Smith or Tannehill level as Sam is still quite young at 24. He has weapons and a capable coordinator and head coach in his corner. The time is now. Honestly I very much agree with you about the Saints. I can't stand them but I worry about Payton still giving us fits even with Taysom and Jameis. He made Teddy look like a starter!

[ForJimmy]

7 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Again I'm not the one making definitive statements.

Those are very narrow parameters [top 3, dominant, traded], but you can have Alex Smith and Mike Vick as two examples of QBs taken in the 'Top 3' who were significantly better at their second stop. 

Obviously Ryan Tannehill is the prime example of a 1st round QB reclamation project in recent years and he also had the misfortune of being coached by Gase. 

I would not be at all surprised if Payton turns Winston into a thorn in our side. 

Alex Smith was a lot better with Harbaugh (same team that drafted him).  Second highest rating was last year in SF 2012 104.1 vs 104.7 in 2017. I wouldn’t call that “significant” but I suppose everyone is a critic.  I wouldn’t call Vick a bust or reclamation project. He dominated when he was healthy then got in legal trouble. Winston is just a complete guess who isn’t even named the starter yet…

[LinvilleGorge]

Winston put up huge numbers in Tampa, he just also put up huge turnover numbers. If Payton can help him clean up the turnovers he's gonna be a problem.

[Proudiddy]

12 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Well I hope your wrong too.  I guess I am a bit more optimistic than you.  But, I also understand your pessimism because retread QBs don't normally turn into Pro Bowlers when they move.

Let's hope Darnold is the exception to the rule. 

Indeed