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Rhule vs Saleh

NAS

By NAS,
in Carolina Panthers

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mbarbour21 Proficient

mbarbour21

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I'm going to go with Rhule just on the fact that we have Tepper who doesn't seem to be over active and allows football people to football. Then add in that the football person is Fitterer, and he seems to make very good football decisions for the now and for the future (personnel, but also financial). Looking at the FA brought in this year and this year's draft, and the way we made moves to get said players, we have an amazing foundation to build on that was built super quick. Rhule and Co. are not afraid to make moves, whether that is trading, sitting, starting, waiving, or signing. So many things are better compared to the Marty/Rivera Era. Lots of room for optimism. IMO. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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It just depends on the career arc. Both coach for historically dysfunctional organizations. It probably will depend in their second, third, fourth, etc stops.

I think Saleh is definitely set up for more success with 15 years of NFL coaching in his background. I think Rhule has higher potential but it's also possible he may not reach it until his second or third NFL gig. 

Saleh also has a track record of success as a coordinator in the league, so he is likely to continue to be employed in the NFL even if he gets fired as head coach. Rhule is sort of a jack of all trades, master of none as a coach in his career. He is probably more likely to jump back to college if he gets fired from Carolina.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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Saleh.  That’s who you would put money on.  

Rhule is a college coach and has legit odds of going back to college if things don’t work out here.   That alone IMO would make you lean toward Saleh.  Saleh would stay in the NFL most likely if the Jets don’t work out. 

all about the QB lotto in the end though.   

 

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NAS Grand Master

NAS

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All good arguments, and I do think Saleh will be a good coach but I am surprised more people aren’t higher on Rhule due to his head coaching experience. Saleh may have NFL experience but it’s his first time being the main guy and we shall see if he can sustain a program. 
 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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11 minutes ago, NAS said:

All good arguments, and I do think Saleh will be a good coach but I am surprised more people aren’t higher on Rhule due to his head coaching experience. Saleh may have NFL experience but it’s his first time being the main guy and we shall see if he can sustain a program. 
 

I think that basically boils down to college vs. NFL. The track record of college head coaches to NFL head coaches is generally very poor. The obvious counter is that the road is littered with brilliant NFL coordinators that didn't make good NFL head coaches. Quite a few of those guys get multiple shots at it, however. Not as many college head coaches get second NFL chances of they flame out the first time.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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All this hate for your own teams coach because he didn't draft a player that you experts wanted him to.

Rhule will prove to be the best coach this team has had to date.  Saleh will be back to being a defensive coordinator in 2 years, it's the Jets for goodness sake.

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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45 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Go ahead if you want to. Just consider that it's way too early to judge the players and Rhule's comments about not being afraid to cut bait with players you draft. Just because a player is on the roster today doesn't mean he will be tomorrow. Nor does a good rookie season mean the player will be great. Example: Kelvin Benjamin. He had a good rookie season and then flamed out.

Point taken, but Benjamin isn't necessarily the best example, as there were plenty of questions regarding his pro viability due to his attitude--his maturity and work ethic. So flaming out is always a risk for boom-or-bust type players. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

All this hate for your own teams coach because he didn't draft a player that you experts wanted him to.

Rhule will prove to be the best coach this team has had to date.  Saleh will be back to being a defensive coordinator in 2 years, it's the Jets for goodness sake.

I can't say for sure Rhule will be better. I have been a Panthers fan long enough that I am more inclined to wait and see(especially when we are talking about a guy with one season of NFL HC experience to date). Saleh is a safer bet just simply because college head coaches don't usually get as many second chances in the NFL as coordinators turned failed head coaches. Rightly or wrongly, that is just how it has generally been.

If you wanted to make the best bet possible, you'd bet on both of them to be failed NFL head coaches. It is the most common result, by a wide, wide margin.

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TLGPanthersFan Grand Master

TLGPanthersFan

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I think the Jets goal is the same as us last year. Just be competitive and show improvement. 
But as we saw last year that is easier said then done. 
I think Selah, if given time, will turn the Jets around. 
Rhule needs to show this year that the team is improving either through a playoffs trip or winning more than last year. 

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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Just now, top dawg said:

Point taken, but Benjamin isn't necessarily the best example, as there were plenty of questions regarding his pro viability due to his attitude--his maturity and work ethic. So flaming out is always a risk for boom-or-bust type players. 

Also it was a different front office.   You can't compare this team to past teams. Well you could compare last season to this one if you want but that's it.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I can't say for sure Rhule will be better. I have been a Panthers fan long enough that I am more inclined to wait and see(especially when we are talking about a guy with one season of NFL HC experience to date). Saleh is a safer bet just simply because college head coaches don't usually get as many second chances in the NFL as coordinators turned failed head coaches. Rightly or wrongly, that is just how it has generally been.

If you wanted to make the best bet possible, you'd bet on both of them to be failed NFL head coaches. It is the most common result, by a wide, wide margin.

How many coaches that have been hired with pro experience have succeeded?  It's not much better even with the overwhelming majority having pro experience.  It's not a sure bet by any means. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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4 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

How many coaches that have been hired with pro experience have succeeded?  It's not much better even with the overwhelming majority having pro experience.  It's not a sure bet by any means. 

I'd have to run the numbers but the success rate of the college head coaches to the NFL in the last 25-30 years has been ridiculously low.

I can do a little statistical breakdown this week, perhaps and we can see what the full picture is. Might be worth a look to see if this generally accepted wisdom is accurate or not.

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

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Just now, kungfoodude said:

I'd have to run the numbers but the success rate of the college head coaches to the NFL in the last 25-30 years has been ridiculously low.

I can do a little statistical breakdown this week, perhaps and we can see what the full picture is. Might be worth a look to see if this generally accepted wisdom is accurate or not.

Getting the coach hire right is critical no doubt.  Most teams go for someone with NFL experience  I agree.  But they also have more misses due to that very fact.  But nearly all nfl coaches have started at the college level at some point in their career.   

I think too much is made of that "college coach" thing because of the two high profile  college coaches that failed in recent years.  I just think too much is being made of that to try to discount what Rhule has accomplished with this team.  For some it will never be enough. 

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musicman Proficient

musicman

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Saleh was never in charge and being #1 vs #2 Coach on a team is huge. The head coach dictates everything down to schedule, the players he wants, programs, systems, etc. Rhule has shown a tremendous ability to transform an organization, from Temple and Baylor and what we have seen so far from the Panthers. I did not expect a semi competitive team last year with that roster and they fought hard and were in almost every game. 

Rhule will be successful and this team will be fighting for a playoff spot every year. I don't think this is on Saleh, but the Jets organization has been garbage for years. He has a lot to change there and that's a lot for a 1st time HC on any level. He seems like a good coach but being the head honcho is different than just being a coordinator. 

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