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A Breakdown of the O-Line play from Sunday

Ricky Spanish

By Ricky Spanish,
in Carolina Panthers

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Pantherxtreme Experienced

Pantherxtreme

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Anyone who thinks Paradis was the worst pass protection guy needs to learn how to watch film. He wasn't good but there were two other guys who played a lot worse and gave up more pressures.

That first sack looked so bad, where Paradis got thrown back so far, that I think everyone is projecting that out to the entire game.

According to this 

NFL Week 4 Game Recap: Dallas Cowboys 36, Carolina Panthers 28 | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

Paradis had 1 sack allowed and 2 pressures allowed.

Ervin had 1 sack allowed and 6 pressures allowed.

Miller had 1 sack allowed and 5 pressures allowed.

Also I'm pretty sure Miller had a penalty and maybe Ervin also.

And for those that don't trust PFF, those numbers are actually close to what I saw when I went back and charted the game.

All three were bad, but if you actually go back and watch those three players on every snap, not the ball, Paradis was the least bad of those three and to be honest his PFF grade is inline with that.  His actual PFF grade was low for pass protection, his overall grade looked better than people expected because he played above average in the run game.

 

 

 

 

I don't need a recap I saw with my own two eyes were the pressures and sacks were coming from straight up the A gap. The guards weren't great but Paradis was the main culprit on more than one sack even if his man wasn't credited with it. 

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Appealing to PFF as authoritative?

Ummm... 😕

Do you have a better source for pressures allowed per player for the game?

Actually I went back and charted Paradis myself and it was inline with what PFF had.  Paradis didn't play well in the pass game, but Erving and Miller played worse.

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BrianS Veteran

BrianS

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There is a lot more to interior OLine play that just staying between your man and the QB.  This is why Paradis is being graded highly.  His technique is fine, he keeps himself in relatively good position.  The problem our entire interior has is that they get pushed backwards. 

Interior push is arguably the most important part of pressuring the QB.  Defensively, when you prevent a QB from climbing the pocket, or even stepping into his throw, you've done good work.  Sure, you'd like sacks and hits, but just obscuring his vision and lanes and making him move are all things that create challenges to the timing and execution of the passing game.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Do you have a better source for pressures allowed per player for the game?

Actually I went back and charted Paradis myself and it was inline with what PFF had.  Paradis didn't play well in the pass game, but Erving and Miller played worse.

 

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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18 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

I don't need a recap I saw with my own two eyes were the pressures and sacks were coming from straight up the A gap. The guards weren't great but Paradis was the main culprit on more than one sack even if his man wasn't credited with it. 

Pressure right after the half you referenced when Paradis wasn't blocking anyone like you said, Double 
A gap, he had the guy on the right, that guy delayed and then looped around.  Its not run blocking he isn't going towards the guy to block him he is watching his zone.  RB had the left defender.  Once the guy did blitz Paradis blocked him from the side.  Even if you call that a pressure its one of the 2 or 3?  

4th sack, he blocked his guy.  Defender lines up over Paradis, and attacks outside shoulder of Paradis.  Daley didn't come off to help as much as Daley's guy looped around.  Watch the play in slow motion, Daley actually ends up behind the defender and Paradis still has good inside leverage on the defender and rides him to the side of Sam.   Miller's guy actually got the sack.

 

 

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

Lol

First of all PFF's grades aren't based on statistics, but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I asked if you had a better source for pressures per player for the game.  I'm open to suggestions.

How about you?

Why don't you go back and actually watch each player on the line one at a time and chart how many pressures each allow, but then you might actually have an educated opinion, but its a lot easier just to be a sheep and follow what everyone else is perceiving.

Are you saying that Erving and Miller had less pressures than Paradis?

 

 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Lol

First of all PFF's grades aren't based on statistics, but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I asked if you had a better source for pressures per player for the game.  I'm open to suggestions.

How about you?

Why don't you go back and actually watch each player on the line one at a time and chart how many pressures each allow, but then you might actually have an educated opinion, but its a lot easier just to be a sheep and follow what everyone else is perceiving.

Are you saying that Erving and Miller had less pressures than Paradis?

See the answer from Brian S above regarding a big reason why PFF grades miss the mark.

And no, I'm not going to bother to chart stuff because I don't give a sh-t about stats. I see what I see, and I understand what I see because I've been watching and studying the game since I was five years old. My "grading system" has only two categories: "good enough" and "not good enough".

Plus if you actually read what I've already posted, you'd have a better understanding of what I saw in this game.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Posted
Just now, shaqattaq said:

chalk it up to "poo happens". Slater is playing great , and was who I had in my mock draft, FWIW :), but Horn was a beast until he got hurt. I'm not hating the pick.

Way too many people evaluate draft picks based solely on what they're doing this year.

You also have to factor in what the Horn pick allows us to do in future seasons.

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

See the answer from Brian S above regarding a big reason why PFF grades miss the mark.

And no, I'm not going to bother to chart stuff because I don't give a sh-t about stats. I see what I see, and I understand what I see because I've been watching and studying the game since I was five years old. My "grading system" has only two categories: "good enough" and "not good enough".

Plus if you actually read what I've already posted, you'd have a better understanding of what I saw in this game.

But what you see is a stat you just aren't writing it down, so in reality you do care, you just don't do a good job of tracking it.  You go off memory and the limited plays you notice. 

So in your limited eye test who did you see give up the most pressures?  

I didn't say Paradis was good enough, I said he played better than Miller or Erving, which is inline with what PFF said.  So if you don't agree with PFF's grades are you saying those two played better?

In regards to what Brian S said above he makes a valid point, but in reality Paradis didn't get graded high in pass protection.  Everyone is upset about his grade but they don't even realize his actual pass protection grade was bad.

If you do want to go by Brian S criteria to judge the lineman, which like i said is valid, you can still make the argument that Paradis played better than Erving and Miller in this game which is all I am saying.

 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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1 minute ago, AU-panther said:

But what you see is a stat you just aren't writing it down, so in reality you do care, you just don't do a good job of tracking it.  You go off memory and the limited plays you notice. 

So in your limited eye test who did you see give up the most pressures?  

I didn't say Paradis was good enough, I said he played better than Miller or Erving, which is inline with what PFF said.  So if you don't agree with PFF's grades are you saying those two played better?

In regards to what Brian S said above he makes a valid point, but in reality Paradis didn't get graded high in pass protection.  Everyone is upset about his grade but they don't even realize his actual pass protection grade was bad.

If you do want to go by Brian S criteria to judge the lineman, which like i said is valid, you can still make the argument that Paradis played better than Erving and Miller in this game which is all I am saying.

That first paragraph is...convoluted 😳

And again, you're not getting it. I don't care who gave up 5 pressures versus 7. I care about who I saw doing a good job and who I didn't.

Frankly, I'd put more stock in Spanish's analysis from the OP than I would the PFF grades.

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That first paragraph is...convoluted 😳

And again, you're not getting it. I don't care who gave up 5 pressures versus 7. I care about who I saw doing a good job and who I didn't.

Frankly, I'd put more stock in Spanish's analysis from the OP than I would the PFF grades.

So you think Paradis did worse that Erving and Miller for the game?

 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, AU-panther said:

So you think Paradis did worse that Erving and Miller for the game?

You're still missing the point.

I don't care.

Paradis was bad.

Miller was bad.

Erving has been good previously, but in this game he was bad.

Who was worst? Who gives a sh-t? 🙄

Just like the people Harry Tasker killed, they were all bad.

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