Cam looked very good yesterday

[Pazhoosier89]

I've seen enough to resign Cam to a 2 or 3 year deal. Let him take the reigns until we can find a replacement in the draft.

[CarolinaNCSU]

The TD pass to CMC was some of the best touch I've ever seen Cam put on a ball. I honestly don't know if old Cam makes that play except in 2015 when he was feeling it.  Really don't understand why he never tried to go "deep" at all outside of that one pass unless the play calls we gave him didn't allow it. 

[FugginPoo]

Cams head seems to be in right place now, if shoulder is good he needs be the QB for next 2-3 years while we smartly find the QB of future

[TheMaulClaw]

1 minute ago, Waldo said:

I think the penalties show that the players trying to do something when they are getting beat like a drum. 

Jordan especially. That looked like the guy who got Burrow hurt. The coaching on the oline looks awful this year. 

I'm not sure if it's coaching or not along the Oline. At least not the position coach.  I think Rhule has been bad for the Oline.  The Oline played well last week, and Rhule decides to cram a guy in there who just comes off of injuries.  It's like he can't help but trot a new starting O line rotation out there every week. 

Overall what we're seeing is a lack of talent there.  I have seen improvement in their pass protection to be fair.  We have run the ball a bit better in recent weeks.  It's discipline that we need to hone in on. 

Honestly I was expecting a few false starts this week.  New qb, new cadence and the like.  I am happy that they were able to keep Cam from taking any big shots. 

I think a bigger problem is Brady, but even this week that's hard to judge because Cam was limited in terms of the playbook.  We should have done to Washington what they did to us.  They had us on skates because of the playaction and their ability to run the ball.  We ran the ball well, but didn't utilize playaction enough.

One of Rhule's supposed selling points when he was hired was his ability to keep players healthy through a modern analytical snap to rest ratio sort of thing.  He was supposed to be skilled at player recovery.  That's proved to be a bunch of bullshit.  I'd say should draft a few new starting OL, but the reality is...they'll get hurt.  Something that Rhule is doing is leaving the OL vulnerable to injury.

 

 

[45catfan]

14 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Offense was not the problem.  Cam moved the ball on every drive, every drive that didn't work out was killed by penalties....outside of the last drive.  In spite of that, this game was a 100 percent on the D.  I went into this game thinking the same thing as you....run the dual qb system again.  To my surprise, that was the least of our worries.

3rd downs actually WERE a problem though.  The rub I put on Brady/Rhule is PJ knows the entire playbook and while Cam played well, you don't need your hands tied on the money down.  Having limited play calls on 3rd down is a bad spot to be in.  Again, I'm not sure the mixture of Cam/PJ, but it was too early for Cam to play 100% of the snaps.  I would have waited at least another week before making that move.

Agreed the defensive side was lacking yesterday, but it's also true we needed our offense to sustain drives just like they did to us and that can't happen without converting 3rd downs.

Edited November 22, 2021 by 45catfan

[TheMaulClaw]

5 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

3rd downs actually WERE a problem though.  The rub I put on Brady/Rhule is PJ knows the entire playbook and while Cam played well, you don't need your hands tied on the money down.  Having limited play calls on 3rd down is a bad spot to be in.  Again, I'm not sure the mixture of Cam/PJ, but it was too early for Cam to play 100% of the snaps.  I would have waited at least another week before making that move.

Agreed the defensive side was lacking yesterday, but it's also true we needed our offense to sustain drives just like they did to us and that can't happen without converting 3rd downs.

3rd downs we're a problem mainly due to drive killing holding calls.  The reason we lost that game is quite honestly our D poo the bed and couldn't get them off the field. 

On that final drive, once we past mid field and there was still 1:20 seconds left on the clock, the run should have still been an option on that 3rd and 4th down. 

[Waldo]

11 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I'm not sure if it's coaching or not along the Oline. At least not the position coach.  I think Rhule has been bad for the Oline.  The Oline played well last week, and Rhule decides to cram a guy in there who just comes off of injuries.  It's like he can't help but trot a new starting O line rotation out there every week. 

Overall what we're seeing is a lack of talent there.  I have seen improvement in their pass protection to be fair.  We have run the ball a bit better in recent weeks.  It's discipline that we need to hone in on. 

Honestly I was expecting a few false starts this week.  New qb, new cadence and the like.  I am happy that they were able to keep Cam from taking any big shots. 

I think a bigger problem is Brady, but even this week that's hard to judge because Cam was limited in terms of the playbook.  We should have done to Washington what they did to us.  They had us on skates because of the playaction and their ability to run the ball.  We ran the ball well, but didn't utilize playaction enough.

One of Rhule's supposed selling points when he was hired was his ability to keep players healthy through a modern analytical snap to rest ratio sort of thing.  He was supposed to be skilled at player recovery.  That's proved to be a bunch of bullshit.  I'd say should draft a few new starting OL, but the reality is...they'll get hurt.  Something that Rhule is doing is leaving the OL vulnerable to injury.

 

 

Some good truths there sir.

I think them putting in Miller exposes their evaluation and exprctations. Why bring him back? We have been better without him.

Cam really threw off the last game, I think this one was a coming back down to earth situation with an opposing coach that knows all the angles we are dealing with.

I hate our oline coaching and values. Its aweful. I think Brady did solid with a guy who has been on the team a little over a week. Solid game plan but personal on the oline is a bigger proven  issue than Brady's play calling IMO. I'm not sure I trust that lineup enough for pkayaction.

100% on the last part. Our subs is a broken system and I again think some of that is evaluation issues....Ron took Jackson to the wood shed the same week the Panthers were proving him up for a huge payday...lol and yikes

Edited November 22, 2021 by Waldo

[TheMaulClaw]

5 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Some good truths there sir.

I think them putting in Miller exposes their evaluation and exprctations. Why bring him back? We have been better without him.

Cam really threw off the last game, I think this one was a coming back down to earth situation with an opposing coach that knows all the angles we are dealing with.

I hate our oline coaching and values. Its aweful. I think Brady did solid with a guy who has been on the team a little over a week. Solid game plan but personal on the oline is a bigger prove  issue than Brady's play calling IMO.

100% on the last part. Our subs is a broken system and I again think some of that is evaluation issues....Ron took Jackson to the wood shed the same week the Panthers were proving him up for a huge payday...lol and yikes

I don't think Cam came back to earth other then catching an L.  In watching that game I was thoroughly impressed with Cam.  He almost got a W that we did not deserve. The Oline is catching a lot of heat and rightfully so, and I agree Brady did some good things in the game.  The calls on the last drive were awful, but he did some good things. 

I just don't know how we can look at this game and think it was anything other then the D.  If the D is able to get them off the field we probably score 31 points this game.  The complete defensive collapse between the 2nd and 3rd quarter was the difference.

And yes Jackson was exposed yesterday.  I still think he's a good player, and many players have bad games from time to time.  Overall he's had a good year, but an awful game yesterday, but so did the rest of the secondary and the linebackers.

Edited November 22, 2021 by TheMaulClaw

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, TheMaulClaw said:

3rd downs we're a problem mainly due to drive killing holding calls.  The reason we lost that game is quite honestly our D poo the bed and couldn't get them off the field. 

On that final drive, once we past mid field and there was still 1:20 seconds left on the clock, the run should have still been an option on that 3rd and 4th down. 

The stats don't lie.  We were 2-9 on 3rd down and 1-3 on 4th down.  Combined 3-12, for a conversion rate 0f 25%.  Penalties?  Ron's team had 1 MORE than we did and we had 1 MORE than them converting a first down due to penalty.  They had the only turnover so we had the only extra drive of the game.

You've dug your trench, that's cool...I'm moving on.

[TheMaulClaw]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

The stats don't lie.  We were 2-9 on 3rd down and 1-3 on 4th down.  Combined 3-12, for a conversion rate 0f 25%.  Penalties?  Ron's team had 1 MORE than we did and we had 1 MORE than them converting a first down due to penalty.  They had the only turnover so we had the only extra drive of the game.

You've dug your trench, that's cool...I'm moving on.

How many holding calls did they have?

How long we're their drives?  Them converting 3rd downs had to do with a bunch of 3rd and 2's and 3rd and 1's, with a run game we could not stop with no holding calls.  What they did on 3rd down doesn't effect what happened to us on 3rd down.  I don't think we called great 3rd down plays, but when you're spending 1st down just trying to make up holding yardage, it will creep into your 3rd down conversion rate.

Unless your Washington because we decide to give a 20 yard cushion after two sacks, because we're idiots.

Edited November 22, 2021 by TheMaulClaw

[rippadonn]

32 minutes ago, Rocky Davis said:

Yeah those penalties the Oline had yesterday hurt a lot.  Interesting thing is the zebras let WFT hold like they were cradling babies all game long and didn't call it...I guess our Oline is known as garbage around the league and refs are watching our scrubs harder.

THATS how they control games. The momentum was with the Panthers the refs sought to control that. They helped WFT on their first scoring drive to help their confidence and stabilize momentum.

After that they let them hold and didn't let us do the same. Maybe it's not the NFL but somebody is influencing the outcome of games.

The officials were horrible, on purpose.

[Waldo]

10 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I don't think Cam came back to earth other then catching an L.  In watching that game I was thoroughly impressed with Cam.  He almost got a W that we did not deserve. The Oline is catching a lot of heat and rightfully so, and I agree Brady did some good things in the game.  The calls on the last drive were awful, but he did some good things. 

I just don't know how we can look at this game and think it was anything other then the D.  If the D is able to get them off the field we probably score 31 points this game.  The complete defensive collapse between the 2nd and 3rd quarter was the difference.

And yes Jackson was exposed yesterday.  I still think he's a good player, and many players have bad games from time to time.  Overall he's had a good year, but an awful game yesterday, but so did the rest of the secondary and the linebackers.

The line dragged him to earth. Cam is good to go and will get better by the week. I think he saved us from the olines play a couple of times.

Yep, D fell apart and was just awful yesterday. 100% agree. I was just talking about how the oline looked like the obvious weak link on the offensive side.

Jackson is good but he isn't great. I just don't feel comfortable giving him a big contract. He is having his best year by far but it is also a contract year for him.

[TheMaulClaw]

Just now, Waldo said:

The line dragged him to earth. Cam is good to go and will get better by the week. I think he saved us from the olines play a couple of times.

Yep, D fell apart and was just awful yesterday. 100% agree. I was just talking about how the oline looked like the obvious weak link on the offensive side.

Jackson is good but he isn't great. I just don't feel comfortable giving him a big contract. He is having his best year by far but it is also a contract year for him.

He's a good player, worth a good contract, not worth the contract he'll ask for.  No doubt we let him walk....and if we don't then it'll be time for a fire Fitterer thread.

There's just no need to bring him back with Horne, Henderson, and Traylor there.  I WOULD like to see Gilmore brought back on a two year deal.

[Waldo]

 

 

3 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

He's a good player, worth a good contract, not worth the contract he'll ask for.  No doubt we let him walk....and if we don't then it'll be time for a fire Fitterer thread.

There's just no need to bring him back with Horne, Henderson, and Traylor there.  I WOULD like to see Gilmore brought back on a two year deal.

That is it and all of it. It's not Jackson hate but he is gearing up for a big payday and situationally we are not in a place where that should happen here.